The Race For 2024

[Ford]

You’re the one advocating for more ineffective and harmful incarceration of minors.

A 16-17 year old murderer should not be given a pass just because he is 1-2 years shy of the age of majority.
I disagree that it is ineffective or harmful to incarcerate such criminals.
On the other hand, giving them a pass is harmful to society.

I don’t know that anybody is talking about giving a minor a ‘pass’ because they are a minor. I think that the law recognizes, as does brain science, that those we deem minors lack the same capacity for judgement and self control and long term thinking that an adult possesses. Their brains and minds are still developing. Sentencing them to adult time in adult prison is not justice and can cause more harm than good.

But what if they're "leftist" or a minority? Huh? Didn't think of that, did you?!

(obvious sarcasm)

 

[bilby]

Do you genuinely believe that five or six years of incarceration is not a significant sentence?

Not for murder. It's basically a slap on the wrist.

Have you spent as much as five minutes inside a prison?

Do you have any idea at all what five years of incarceration is like?

It's certainly not a "slap on the wrist".

Prison offers rapidly diminishing returns; Long sentences achieve nothing positive that shorter sentences don't already achieve.

 

[laughing dog]

Of course you do. Are these minors serving their time with adults?

I think in most cases they serve time in juvi until they turn 18 and get transferred to adult prison, but I am sure this varies by state.

But how much time do you think 15 and 16 year old robbers and murderers should serve? And should all of it be in juvi?

Minors should not serve any time with adults. How much time someone should serve depends on a variety of influences.

 

[laughing dog]

Have the police identified any suspects?

Not sure about these particular individuals, but often police will identify suspects but the fauxgressive DAs will not prosecute.

Do, the fact mo one has been charged may be that no one haa been identified to be charged. Yet you conclude the DAs are to blame.

 

[Ford]

Do you genuinely believe that five or six years of incarceration is not a significant sentence?

Not for murder. It's basically a slap on the wrist.

Have you spent as much as five minutes inside a prison?

Do you have any idea at all what five years of incarceration is like?

It's certainly not a "slap on the wrist".

Prison offers rapidly diminishing returns; Long sentences achieve nothing positive that shorter sentences don't already achieve.

It is worth noting that many of the 1/6 defendants have done a 180 on their dedication to Trump when faced with even short stints in prison. Not leaders of the group like Elmer Stuart Rhodes and Denny Terrio (sorry, that's the host of "Dance Fever" from the 80s) Enrique Tarrio...they're still unrepentant, but the "foot soldiers" seem to grasp that they done fucked up.

 

[Derec]

Have you spent as much as five minutes inside a prison?

No. Not jail either.

Do you have any idea at all what five years of incarceration is like?

Can't be worse than getting murdered at 24, like the young man robbed and murdered by these teens in the example I posted.

It's certainly not a "slap on the wrist".

Compared to severity of their crime, it is.

Prison offers rapidly diminishing returns; Long sentences achieve nothing positive that shorter sentences don't already achieve.

They remove a killed from the rest of us.
Do you think 5 years is adequate if these two were 18 and 19, instead of 15 and 16?

 

[Swammerdami]

What is your opinion of leftists detonating a bomb in the US Senate?

???????? That's what you're going with????? As evidence that the Blues are just as much a threat in 2024 as your Fascist Ilk, you cite some Pinks doing something wrong in 1983??

IIRC, some "right-wingers" did something wrong during the reign of Rome's Emperor Claudius; should I put that forward to rebut your M19?

 

[Derec]

But what if they're "leftist" or a minority? Huh? Didn't think of that, did you?!
(obvious sarcasm)

Obviously then, whatever they did, it was just "peaceful protesting" and calling the police on them is fascism.
(also obvious sarcasm)

 

[Derec]

???????? That's what you're going with????? As evidence that the Blues are just as much a threat in 2024 as your Fascist Ilk, you cite some Pinks doing something wrong in 1983??

So 2020 riots or 2023 anti-Cop City violence is not an acceptable example because it did not happen at the US Capitol.
But your Ilk bombing the US Capitol is not an acceptable example because it happened too long ago.

It is obvious you will always find some reason why leftist violence does not matter.

 

[Tigers!]

Do you genuinely believe that five or six years of incarceration is not a significant sentence?

Not for murder. It's basically a slap on the wrist.

Have you spent as much as five minutes inside a prison?

I look forward to you telling us about your five minutes (or more) with the HM prison system. (And if anyone asks I have worked in prisons before)

Do you have any idea at all what five years of incarceration is like?

It's certainly not a "slap on the wrist".

Prison offers rapidly diminishing returns; Long sentences achieve nothing positive that shorter sentences don't already achieve.

A positive that long sentences achieve is that the criminal is not mixing in the general community for as long.
With that logic we might as well get murderers 6 months in jail if a longer sentence achieves nothing positive.

 

[ZiprHead]

You’re the one advocating for more ineffective and harmful incarceration of minors.

A 16-17 year old murderer should not be given a pass just because he is 1-2 years shy of the age of majority.
I disagree that it is ineffective or harmful to incarcerate such criminals.
On the other hand, giving them a pass is harmful to society.

So should 16-17 yr olds be allowed to buy booze, go to strip clubs, vote in elections?

 

[Patooka]

You’re the one advocating for more ineffective and harmful incarceration of minors.

A 16-17 year old murderer should not be given a pass just because he is 1-2 years shy of the age of majority.
I disagree that it is ineffective or harmful to incarcerate such criminals.
On the other hand, giving them a pass is harmful to society.

So should 16-17 yr olds be allowed to buy booze, go to strip clubs, vote in elections?

No, but you should totally be allowed to fuck them if "they look old enough".

 

[Derec]

So should 16-17 yr olds be allowed to buy booze, go to strip clubs, vote in elections?

18 year olds should though. I think legal restrictions on young adults are BS. Just like that new bipartisan law in Florida that raised the age for dancing in a strip club - utter idiocy!

That said, I never said 16 year olds are adults. But they are distinct from children as well. For example, 16 year olds can get a driver's license. In Germany, they can buy beer. In most countries and many US states, they are above the age of consent.

 

[Derec]

No, but you should totally be allowed to fuck them if "they look old enough".

You already can in most places.

 

[bilby]

A positive that long sentences achieve is that the criminal is not mixing in the general community for as long.

That's not so much a positive, as it is an admission of failure. If incarceration isn't effective in rehabilitating criminals or deterring them from re-offending, then the only appropriate sentence for any crime becomes life without parole.

If prison does have a rehabilitative or deterrent effect, then sentences need only be sufficiently long to achieve that effect; If five years isn't sufficient, it is implausible that twenty five would be.

 

[Politesse]

Dude, Trump was kicked out of office in 2020. Stop acting like Trump actually managed to overturn the election

He has not conceded.

 

[lpetrich]

REVIEW OF 1984 By Isaac Asimov I
Asimov on science fiction : Asimov, Isaac, 1920-1992 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
I like this from his review of "1984": "He had no Rightist superstitions concerning Leftists as unified and indistinguishable villains" then noting that left-wingers will sometimes viciously fight each other.

I note that because his description of the Right on the Left is a very good fit for what a certain person thinks.

Haley won 1 in 5 Indiana Republican voters in the presidential primary. She left the race in March | AP News though from  Results of the 2024 Republican Party presidential primaries the actual numbers are

DT 82.8%, NH 16.5%, other 0.7%

More like 1 out of 6 voted for NH. Not very much, but it is enough to give Joe Biden a good margin in a swing state.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Oi polls!

Siena came out with a poll indicating things aren't looking great for Biden. Shows Trump leading by one point in WI, 3 pts in PA, and 13 pts in NV.

But there was an interesting thing in the polling though.

“While abortion is cited as the third most important campaign issue behind the economy – number one – and immigration, by 64-27% battleground voters prefer abortion be always or mostly legal rather than always or mostly illegal. At least a plurality of voters – a majority in Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin – trust Biden more than Trump to do a better job on abortion.”

I'm not one to take a single metric and blow it out of proportion, but nearly 3 to 1 on a position and the voters trust Biden more on it.

Men in aggregate generally vote for the GOP'er. Women in aggregate generally vote for the Democrat. When looking at exit polls, this is the way I usually can tell off the bat if it is close or if there is a winner. Simple math. And now the math is saying that 3 to 1, abortion should be legal, and they trust Biden. To me, this means that women will vote for Biden by at least 1 to 2 more points than usual. About 1.6 million women voted in Wisconsin, where Biden won by around 20,000 votes. One percent of women voting in 2020 would be 16,000. So if 2 percent more women vote for Biden than Trump, that +32,000 votes, assuming all new voters and no switches (switches cuts Trump twice) So Trump needs to turnout the male vote. But his problem is quite simply this, the GOP has a limited stock of white males. Indeed, black males vote for Democrats a lot more than white males. So even if he turns a few black male votes, he needs turnout to be even higher to counter what will have to be a better return on women votes for Biden. And Trump might have pegged the meter with angry white votes.

I could be wrong, and maybe abortion isn't as big a deal, but unlike most other political issues, abortion is a lot more human than it is political.

Another thing I think Biden should consider is 2012. The Dems have the money, so spend some to force the GOP to spend in Florida, Arizona, North Carolina, however, fight as hard as possible for the North and Nevada. Yes, we need to fight for the Senate in AZ, FL, etc... so there are bonuses there, but Indiana wasn't close in 2012 for Obama. Mind the wall!