Columbia University is colluding with the far-right in its attack on students

[Arctish]

You not believing doesn't make it so.

A 57% poll to the contrary doesn’t make most people think 10/7 was the “right” thing to do.

English failure??

57% of the people in Gaza think 10/7 was the right thing to do even given the response. You appear to be interpreting this backwards.

Is that number derived from the poll you cited here. I don't think you read it all the way through. You seem to have missed the significance of the responses from people who hadn't seen the evidence of war crimes who nevertheless overwhelmingly condemned them.

Destruction of Palestinian wells? Hamas.

Diverting water? No, Hamas is using well pipe for rockets.

Support your claims, Loren.

You can either deal with the backlog in this thread and the Gaza one, or you can start right now with your assertion that Hamas destroyed Palestinian wells, that it has diverted water, etc.

Don't keep shitting up the thread with unripe bovung. If what you say is true and accurate, show us the links to sources.

Hamas crowed about digging up pipe for use in rockets after the Gaza pullout.

And I didn't say they diverted water. I said they diverted pipe meant for wells. The water wasn't diverted, it's still there in the ground.

I said "[The Palestinians] would have to be allowed to prosper. No more Zionist seizing of productive farmland, no more destruction of Palestinian wells or diverting of Palestinian water to Israel, no more Israeli settlements built in the West Bank, no more interference with the importing or exporting of material goods, no more fuckery by cutting off electricity to Gaza, or closing the borders without notice, or preventing foreign aid from reaching people, no more diverting natural gas from Palestinian territorial waters to Israel, or mining Palestinian minerals for transfer to Israel without paying royalties, etc. ,etc."

You responded with

Destruction of Palestinian wells? Hamas.

Diverting water? No, Hamas is using well pipe for rockets.

... among a long list of unsupported assertions and claiming ignorance of a topic we have discussed multiple times over our 20+ years of discussions.

And now you're trying to weasel out of backing up your statements.

Support your claims, Loren.

Link to your sources.

Here, I'll help you get started.

 

[Politesse]

And there's no way to distinguish between someone who actively supports Hamas without joining and "official" members, whatever that means.

A five year old cannot be meaningfully called a member of a terrorist group.

Absolutely not. But they can, and are, used as human shields by Gazan leadership and you know it.
Tom

A child dragged in front of a soldier as a blockade for bullets is a human shield. A child living in the house they live in is not a human shield. Everyone fucking grows up somewhere, Tom. There's a reason the deliberate targeting of civilians is called a war crime.

When an enemy commander chooses to remain in his house rather than in a military facility during times of war that makes the child living in said house a human shield.

And when the child is living in the house from which fire is coming it makes them a human shield.

The only side deliberately targeting civilians is Hamas.

I hope you'll keep your proposed rules of engagement in mind when China invades. Any veteran's family is a combatant? Half our population will be dead, but at least no war crimes will have been committed.

Also, you realize this disincentivizes laying down arms, right? If you try to leave the fight and go home, we'll kill your family as punishment.

Since when is military commander a work from home job??

And note that the top people generally have tunnel access inside their homes. That's clearly making their homes into military facilities.

So your argument is that Hamas has more than 10,000 "military commanders"?

 

[ZiprHead]

Amnesty International and HRW can be counted on to take the underdog's side regardless of reality. And they can be counted on to take the side against Israel.

Amazing how every organization that is somewhat critical of Israel is biased according to Loren.

 

[ZiprHead]

Btselem is not a credible source--they severely cherry-pick their reporting.

Media Bias fact check rates them as mostly factual. That they cherry pick doesn't change the facts of what they report.

Yeah, I have never seen them say something that's actually false. They have serious problems with presenting only some of the facts leading to an erroneous conclusion, though. I already pointed out two severe distortions in that source, saying that Israeli actions put non-combatants in danger when there was no danger. That makes me highly suspect the one I don't know about is likewise deceptive.

How did you find out it was false? Is it because you just don't believe it?

 

[TomC]

How did you find out it was false? Is it because you just don't believe it?

Candidate Donald Trump is the marrying kind of guy. Married Ivana in 1977. After she passed away she was interred on the property adjacent to one of his homes. He married his current wife, Melania, in 2005. She is the mother of his youngest child, Barron. He recently asked for, and received, a brief leave of absence to attend Barron's graduation.
Mr Trump has been married for a total of 38 years.

That's entirely true, I just checked Wikipedia.
Tom
ETA ~For the reading comprehension impaired, I'm pointing out that 100% accuracy can produce some spectacular lies.~

 

[ZiprHead]

How did you find out it was false? Is it because you just don't believe it?

Candidate Donald Trump is the marrying kind of guy. Married Ivana in 1977. After she passed away she was interred on the property adjacent to one of his homes. He married his current wife, Melania, in 2005. She is the mother of his youngest child, Barron. He recently asked for, and received, a brief leave of absence to attend Barron's graduation.
Mr Trump has been married for a total of 38 years.

That's entirely true, I just checked Wikipedia.
Tom
ETA ~For the reading comprehension impaired, I'm pointing out that 100% accuracy can produce some spectacular lies.~

Well, that was a useless comment.

 

[TomC]

Hamas crowed about digging up pipe for use in rockets after the Gaza pullout.

And I didn't say they diverted water. I said they diverted pipe meant for wells. The water wasn't diverted, it's still there in the ground.

That's not how it was explained to me by someone who seems very informed.
They said the problem was a combination of big population increases and an arid coastal region. More and more and deeper wells were needed to supply water pumped up from the aquifer. Dropping levels in the aquifer resulted in increasing sea water encroachment. Lots of wells became useless and the pipes were repurposed into weapons. But the water isn't really in the ground anymore.
Small point, but still, nobody destroyed the wells for the pipes.
Tom

 

[Derec]

They said the problem was a combination of big population increases and an arid coastal region. More and more and deeper wells were needed to supply water pumped up from the aquifer. Dropping levels in the aquifer resulted in increasing sea water encroachment.

That is true. But Hamas is responsible for this as well. They encourage Gazans to have as many children as possible, resulting in unsustainable population growth.
Reading stories from Gaza, it's always "mother of six", "mother of eight", occasionally even "mother of 11". Dafuq?

Lots of wells became useless and the pipes were repurposed into weapons. But the water isn't really in the ground anymore.
Small point, but still, nobody destroyed the wells for the pipes.

It's still the case that they repurposed civilian infrastructure for weapons with which they target Israeli civilians.
If the pipes are not useful any more, they can be repurposed for other wells, or to connect to desalination plants. If Hamas cared even one iota for the wellbeing of their population, that is.

 

[Derec]

So your argument is that Hamas has more than 10,000 "military commanders"?

Did he say that? However, if they have ~40k fighters, they must have thousands of commanders of various units. Most of them are low level squad or platoon leaders, but they also would have hundreds of medium level company and battalion leaders. Relatively few are high level brigade commanders or responsible for overall command and control reportable to Yaya Sinwar himself.

This document might be interesting to you: The Order of Battle of Hamas’ Izz al Din al Qassem Brigades

 

[Arctish]

Let's all let Loren support his claims.

He can support the claims he made here, in which case we can all thank him for contributing something of substance to the discussion, or he can't, in which case I will continue to ask him to stop posting home made bullshit.

 

[Derec]

Diverting water? No, Hamas is using well pipe for rockets.

... among a long list of unsupported assertions and claiming ignorance of a topic we have discussed multiple times over our 20+ years of discussions.

Hamas is bragging about it.

 

[Derec]

To bring the discussion back to the topic of anti-Israel protestors at universities:

Pro-Palestinian protesters place fake bloody corpses at home of University of Michigan official

Pro-Palestinian protesters wearing masks pitched tents and placed fake bloody corpses outside the home of a University of Michigan board member Wednesday, raising tension with the school.
Sarah Hubbard, chair of the university’s governing board, said the 6 a.m. demonstration at her home in Okemos involved 30 people.
“They approached my home and taped a letter to my front door and proceeded to erect the tents. A variety of other things were left in the front yard,” Hubbard told The Associated Press. “They started chanting with their bullhorn and pounding on a drum in my otherwise quiet neighborhood.”

I think harassing people at their homes is completely unjustifiable.

 

[Politesse]

So your argument is that Hamas has more than 10,000 "military commanders"?

Did he say that? However, if they have ~40k fighters, they must have thousands of commanders of various units. Most of them are low level squad or platoon leaders, but they also would have hundreds of medium level company and battalion leaders. Relatively few are high level brigade commanders or responsible for overall command and control reportable to Yaya Sinwar himself.

So how many children is an acceptable number of children to kill to take out a low level squad leader, in your opinion? Just sort, of any number of children, or is there a limit? If you kill more kids than there are soldiers in the squad, is that still fine?

 

[Politesse]

I think harassing people at their homes is completely unjustifiable.

Killing them in their homes is fine though, right? If they're in Gaza?

 

[Derec]

Killing them in their homes is fine though, right? If they're in Gaza?

Completely unresponsive to the question of legitimate protest at American universities.
What do you think of the tactics of the anti-Israel protesters there? Do you approve of them? What do you think would be appropriate punishment, if any?

 

[Derec]

So how many children is an acceptable number of children to kill to take out a low level squad leader, in your opinion? Just sort, of any number of children, or is there a limit? If you kill more kids than there are soldiers in the squad, is that still fine?

As few as possible. I do not have a concrete number. Do you? Also, why does a Hamas sergeant-equivalent surround himself with children? Or are they just 16 or 17 year old fighters, and not actual children?

 

[bilby]

Diverting water? No, Hamas is using well pipe for rockets.

... among a long list of unsupported assertions and claiming ignorance of a topic we have discussed multiple times over our 20+ years of discussions.

Hamas is bragging about it.

That's disgusting and unethical.

They should buy their artillery systems from BAe, General Dynamics, and Rheinmetall, like civilised people do before using them to kill women and children.

 

[Derec]

That's disgusting and unethical.
They should buy their artillery systems from BAe, General Dynamics, and Rheinmetall, like civilised people do before using them to kill women and children.

Is that some lame attempt at false equivalence? Besides, they get most of their shit for free from the Tehran regime these days.

 

[bilby]

That's disgusting and unethical.
They should buy their artillery systems from BAe, General Dynamics, and Rheinmetall, like civilised people do before using them to kill women and children.

Is that some lame attempt at false equivalence? Besides, they get most of their shit for free from the Tehran regime these days.

Ah. So they are digging up waterpipes to turn into weapons, because they get free weapons from Tehran. Got it.

I knew they were evil.

 

[Derec]

Another story from the UMass Daily Collegian on police conduct

Students allege brutal treatment by police following May 7 arrests

Many students are speaking out about their experience being arrested during the Gaza solidarity encampment on May 7, alleging injured limbs and being denied water and bathroom use.

dailycollegian.com

Were the zip-ties too tight? What whiney wankers!