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The hush money indictment

I’ve been wondering how many Secret Service agents would call in sick if Mr Trump gets sentenced to some time in prison.
 
Patooka said:
laughing dog said:
I’ve been wondering how many Secret Service agents would call in sick if Mr Trump gets sentenced to some time in prison.
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Nowhere near as many that should.
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I don't understand that.
Put Trump in solitary confinement , as appropo, in a high security prison, and providing secret services protection is a piece of cake.
What am I missing here?
Tom

ETA ~What about Gitmo? We still have that don't we? ~
 
I'd be fine locking him in a closet at Trump Tower.

Meanwhile, Karen McDougal will not be taking the stand. I think the Prosecution feels that her testimony would be too objectionable because Trump having relationship with her isn't a reason why he'd payoff Stormy Daniels. So in order to not give the defense viable chances to object and gain back a little credibility, they are going to forgo her testimony.

I think we have to be getting near the end. I'm pondering if Cohen is even going to testify. Not certain what he provides at this point.
 
Jimmy Higgins said:
I'm pondering if Cohen is even going to testify. Not certain what he provides at this point.
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I think he has to. He is the only witness to Trump’s direct involvement. Almost anything he can testify to is corroborated by circumstantial evidence or other witnesses’ testimony, so I think the value of his testimony outweighs his credibility issues.
 
Before Cohen testifies, D.A. called some "unimportant" witnesses who testified to the paper trail. Since Cohen is accused of being a liar, it was important not to let him be the only one talking about Trump's signatures on checks, etc.

Will 12 jurors convict? If so, how long will we need to wait before Trump is actually incarcerated?

And if one juror refuses to convict, will there be a retrial? How long will it take for that to start?
 
Swammerdami said:
Before Cohen testifies, D.A. called some "unimportant" witnesses who testified to the paper trail. Since Cohen is accused of being a liar, it was important not to let him be the only one talking about Trump's signatures on checks, etc.

Will 12 jurors convict? If so, how long will we need to wait before Trump is actually incarcerated?

And if one juror refuses to convict, will there be a retrial? How long will it take for that to start?
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Will Trump be out pending appeal? He can get up to four years for each of the 34 charges. Usually only in the case of short sentences are convicts allowed to remain free pending appeal, like Bannon's four month sentence. Another determining factor is is he likely to win on appeal. Not bloody, I would think. We'll see how fast the jury comes back. But then there is the problem of his Secret Service protection. What special arrangements would have to be made to incarcerate a former president? Hopefully that can be remedied soon.
Introduced three weeks ago: H.R.8081 - DISGRACED Former Protectees Act. To terminate United States Secret Service protection for felons.
 
‘Are you staring me down right now?’: Key Trump defense witness draws judge’s wrath - POLITICO - "The judge briefly cleared the courtroom while he admonished the witness and threatened to kick him off the stand."
Shortly after the prosecution rested its case Monday in the Manhattan hush money trial, the defense called to the stand a belligerent witness who sparred with prosecutors, muttered under his breath and drew the ire of the judge.
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Not Donald Trump.
Instead, it was an old-school New York lawyer named Robert Costello, whose demeanor on the stand seemed to embody defendant Trump’s surly attitude throughout the trial, which is in its sixth week and now appears to be heading for closing arguments next week.

During a critical period in 2018, Costello consulted with Michael Cohen, Trump’s former fixer. Now, as a witness for the defense, Costello had one primary purpose: undermine Cohen’s credibility. Costello did appear to score some points on that front, though his churlishness in court — while clearly pleasing Trump — may have diminished the effectiveness of his testimony.
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Churlishness?
But perhaps the most noteworthy aspect of Costello’s testimony was his pugnacious and sarcastic delivery — and the reactions it garnered. As jurors looked on, he was combative toward the prosecutors and irreverent to the judge.

At one point, seemingly fed up with prosecutors’ objections, Costello muttered “jeez” and apparently rolled his eyes when Justice Juan Merchan sustained the objections. Merchan sent the jury out of the courtroom so he could give Costello, who is a former federal prosecutor, a stern rebuke.

“If you don’t like my ruling, you don’t say ‘jeez.’ And then you don’t say ‘strike it.’ You don’t give me side eye, and you don’t roll your eyes,” the judge told Costello.

As Merchan was about to call the jury back into the room, he snapped at the defense witness and veteran attorney: “Are you staring me down right now?”

Then, in one of the most dramatic moments of the trial, Merchan briefly ordered journalists and other onlookers to clear the courtroom so the judge could continue to admonish the witness outside the public’s view.

After reporters were ordered out by court by security officers despite numerous verbal protests, Merchan dressed down Costello and Trump’s defense.

“I’m putting you on notice that your conduct is contemptuous,” the judge said to Costello, according to a transcript released Monday evening. “If you try to stare me down one more time, I will remove you from the stand.”

“I will strike his entire testimony; do you understand me?” the judge said to Trump lawyer Emil Bove.

“Can I say something, please?” Costello pleaded.

“No. No. This is not a conversation,” Merchan replied.
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Donald Trump called Judge Merchan a "tyrant" and said “You saw what happened to a highly respected lawyer today. Wow.”
 
Trump hush money trial: Defense rests without Donald Trump taking the stand | AP News
The jury was sent home for a week, until May 28, when closing arguments are expected, but the attorneys returned to the courtroom to discuss how the judge will instruct jurors before deliberations, a sort of road map meant to help them apply the law to the evidence and testimony. The two sides haggled over word choices, legal phrases and how to describe various campaign-related issues.

Trump, the first former American president to be tried criminally, did not answer questions about why he did not testify.

...
Trump’s son Donald Trump Jr. defended his father’s decision not to testify.

“There’d be absolutely no reason, no justification to do that whatsoever. Everyone sees it for the sham that it is,” the younger Trump said as he left a news conference with supporters of the former president outside the courthouse.

The judge has yet to rule on a defense request to throw out the charges, before jurors even begin deliberating, based on the argument that prosecutors have failed to prove their case. Such long-shot requests are often made in criminal cases but are rarely granted.
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The jurors could start deliberating a week from now.
 
Yo, LP, regarding the judge clearing the courtroom, guess who got mad about it on Fox News and was in the NY Post?

Totally terrible lawyer Alan Dershowitz (Wikipedia link).

I was inside the court when the judge closed the Trump trial, and what I saw shocked me​

By Alan Dershowitz
Published May 21, 2024
Updated May 21, 2024, 1:41 p.m. ET
...
But in my 60 years as a lawyer and law professor, I have never seen a spectacle such as the one I observed sitting in the front row of the courthouse yesterday.

The judge in Donald Trump’s trial was an absolute tyrant, though he appeared to the jury to be a benevolent despot. He seemed automatically to be ruling against the defendant at every turn.
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But when the defense’s only substantive witness, the experienced attorney Robert Costello, raised his eyebrows at one of New York Supreme Court Justice Juan Merchan’s rulings, the court went berserk.

Losing his cool and showing his thin skin, the judge cleared the courtroom of everyone including the media.

For some reason, I was allowed to stay, and I observed one of the most remarkable wrong-headed biases I have ever seen. The judge actually threatened to strike all of Costello’s testimony if he raised his eyebrows again.

That of course would have been unconstitutional because it would have denied the defendant his Sixth Amendment right to confront witnesses and to raise a defense.
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Even if what Costello did was wrong, and it was not, it would be utterly improper and unlawful to strike his testimony — testimony that undercut and contradicted the government’s star witness.

The judge’s threat was absolutely outrageous, unethical, unlawful and petty.

...​

Moreover, his affect while issuing that unconstitutional threat revealed his utter contempt for the defense and anyone who testified for the defendant.

The public should have been able to see the judge in action, but because the case is not being televised, the public has to rely on the biased reporting of partisan journalists.
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He said, in the New York Post, a partisan rag.

blah blah, this dude needs to go play some golf. He already likes Trump and is in NYC; he could go putting next to Ivana's totally not-filled-with-secrets gravesite inside of Trump's Bedminster, NJ golf resort. She was buried hastily after plunging boobs-first down her own stairs.
 
At long last, the jury has started deliberating.

What to know about the first day of jury deliberations in the Trump hush money trial | CNN Politics
The jury in Donald Trump’s New York hush money trial finished its first day of deliberations Wednesday without reaching a verdict after meeting for more than four-and-a-half hours.

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Wednesday afternoon, the jury asked to hear a readback of four separate parts of witness testimony, including from former National Enquirer chief David Pecker and Trump’s former fixer Michael Cohen. Jurors also want to re-hear Merchan’s instructions on the law that he had given them earlier Wednesday morning.
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Trump posted

"KANGAROO COURT! A CORRUPT AND CONFLICTED JUDGE. RELIANCE ON COUNSEL (ADVISE OF COUNSEL) NOT ALLOWED BY MERCHAN, A FIRST. HIS RULINGS, ON A CASE THAT SHOULD, ACCORDING TO ALL LEGAL SCHOLARS AND EXPERTS, NEVER HAVE BEEN BROUGHT, HAVE MADE THIS A BIDEN PUSHED WITCH HUNT. THERE WAS NO CRIME, EXCEPT FOR THE BUM THAT GOT CAUGHT STEALING FROM ME! IN GOD WE TRUST!"

:rub:
 
ZiprHead said:
Trump posted

"KANGAROO COURT! A CORRUPT AND CONFLICTED JUDGE. RELIANCE ON COUNSEL (ADVISE OF COUNSEL) NOT ALLOWED BY MERCHAN, A FIRST. HIS RULINGS, ON A CASE THAT SHOULD, ACCORDING TO ALL LEGAL SCHOLARS AND EXPERTS, NEVER HAVE BEEN BROUGHT, HAVE MADE THIS A BIDEN PUSHED WITCH HUNT. THERE WAS NO CRIME, EXCEPT FOR THE BUM THAT GOT CAUGHT STEALING FROM ME! IN GOD WE TRUST!"

:rub:
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I have a really hard time trying to imagine how trumpsuckers see shit like that. I mean, they must not see a totally unhinged rant by an insane, terrified narcissist... so what DO they see? I'm having a really hard time.
 
ZiprHead said:
Trump posted

"KANGAROO COURT! A CORRUPT AND CONFLICTED JUDGE. RELIANCE ON COUNSEL (ADVISE OF COUNSEL) NOT ALLOWED BY MERCHAN, A FIRST. HIS RULINGS, ON A CASE THAT SHOULD, ACCORDING TO ALL LEGAL SCHOLARS AND EXPERTS, NEVER HAVE BEEN BROUGHT, HAVE MADE THIS A BIDEN PUSHED WITCH HUNT. THERE WAS NO CRIME, EXCEPT FOR THE BUM THAT GOT CAUGHT STEALING FROM ME! IN GOD WE TRUST!"

:rub:
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So, if he's lamenting that he couldn't use "advice of counsel" defense does that mean the he admits he did it, but was just doing it because his lawyer said so? that's different than the defense he's actually putting on, in which the lawyer did the crime on his own and is lying that he aided the crime.
 
Fox News and right-wing media have already decided the Trump trial verdict | CNN Business
Throughout the duration of the Manhattan hush-money trial, Fox News and the rest of MAGA Media have set the stage to absolve Trump in the historic case. Day after day, week after week, popular personalities such as Sean Hannity, Laura Ingraham, and Steve Bannon have lampooned the judicial system, portraying Trump as an innocent victim of political persecution.

...
Not only is Trump entirely innocent of any and all wrongdoing in the MAGA Media world, but President Joe Biden is guilty of nefariously weaponizing government to wage “lawfare” on his political opponent. Audiences are told that Biden cannot win a fair fight with Trump, so he has resorted to illegal “election interference” by rigging the judicial system against Trump.

...
“WHERE’S THE CRIME?” demanded a banner on Ingraham’s prime time show Wednesday along with a graphic showing images of Biden, Judge Juan Merchan, and Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg “THE REAL FRAUDS.”

In the following hour, Jesse Watters accused Merchan in an on-screen graphic of “LEADING THE JURY” and intimated how “very fishy” it was that a “stop Trump” judge was selected to preside over the case.
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For people who say that one should not consider oneself a victim, they consider themselves big victims.
 
The Jury just pronounced Trump guilty on all 34 counts. Just watched the reading of the counts as reported on MSNBC.
The feared MAGA hold out did not throw a monkey wrench in this case. All 34 counts have now been reported correct by the Jurors. It is a done deal. Trump is just looking down. No histronics.

And now for a vigorous happy dance.
 
The jury did their homework, asked to hear some things again, asked the judge to go over his instructions again, and then voted unanimously 34 times.

A defendant who didn’t act like a complete dick would have a much better chance of getting probation. I could see him getting 30-90 days just for being an asshole and trying to intimidate judge, prosecutors, witnesses, and jury.
 
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