Another day in woke crazy land

[DrZoidberg]

I don't think John Galliano is racist. I think he's funny. Racist statements can be funny in the right context. Recording people out of context and filtering that context out when spreading it, and we just accepting that is INSANE. He even said he was sorry. I don't think it was necessary, but he did. People are still giving him a hard time 15 years later. Its pathetic. Noboody sensible thinks he's racist. Just look at his work! The whole ongoing controversy is a manufactured public spectacle where everyone involved knows its bullshit.

 

[Kylie]

Racist statements can be funny in the right context.

And what context is that?

 

[DrZoidberg]

Racist statements can be funny in the right context.

And what context is that?

We don't know. Nobody knows. Its a bar. Everybody involved were intoxicated. It might not even have been apropriate for the context, because of a misunderstanding. Its still the context.

Galliano is an edgy queen. I don't want to live in a world where blooming gays at the height of their fierceness are held back by stuffy universalist puritan moral codes. Life is too short.

Humour is often about saying inapropriate things.

In private, I want a world of unfiltered honesty. No matter how inapropriate. We have the thoughts we have. They don't even need to make sense. It was at a table in a bar.

To quote the Iranian philosopher Daniel Samani

“One is not free unless one is able to do things without having to make sense to others”.
/Daniel Samani

Or to quote my girlfriend, "don't believe everything you think"

 

[Toni]

Who do you think would find him funny?

 

[Patooka]

Who do you think would find him funny?

Jim Bauer. He was on SNL onice. Google him - Swiz thinks he's funny.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Who do you think would find him funny?

No jokes are for everyone. Jokes always have one target or another. That's the nature of humour. They work on subverted expectations.

Or he was insulting someone who he thinks behaved horrendously, by saying outrageously insulting things to them. That's also allowed. Again.. context dependent.

And he was drunk. And it was in a bar. Those all modify how seriously we should take things said, IMHO.

With the risk of being unnessarily pedagogical. Here's an example:

Last summer I was at a dinner where a group of Palestians toasted the holocaust. At the table were a group of Israelis. They all joined in. Me too. We all toasted for the holocaust. There was much laughing and merriment. And racist jokes. FYI, the vibe was relaxed and fun, all night. The dinner was part of an art project I was leading. Two days ago one of those Israelis, randomly, messaged me saying she missed being on the project. So at least one Jew at the table wasn't horrendously hurt and offended by this.

We will never know whether or not the Palestinian who called for the toast was serious. We don't need to know. It was preposterously inapropriate and that made it funny. He did say that he would never be able to tell his father that he's spent time socially with Jews. Your welcome to do your best to interpret that.

 

[Patooka]

So weak.

 

[Patooka]

Pathetic is another word. Also Dogshit.

But I think "weak" applies.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Pathetic is another word. Also Dogshit.

But I think "weak" applies.

Wait.. what? Galliano said this 2011. He couldn't possibly have apologised more, and you think he still deserves being cancelled? It makes me wonder if you are a psychopath


Edit: I haven't forgotten your behaviour and "spicy" statements in the 7/10 attack thread. Why do you think you deserve a free pass while you think Galliano should be condemned? I personally think the things you said were more antisemetic than anything Galliano said. Sure, you wrapped up your statements in soft "inoffensive" language, but your message was loud and clear. So what's up with that?

 

[Politesse]

You think it should be dished out but you can't take it....

 

[DrZoidberg]

Here's a good video on it by Seema Rao. US art heavy weight. The video's angle is, "what's in it for the Met?". Very interesting. The story here probably isn't what you think. The Met has a complicated funding system, and it's costume department isn't funded by the same pile of money the rest of the Met is. And clothing/costume is more a rich people's interest than other forms of art, making the opinions and politics of individual rich New Yorker donors a factor. Which is what killed this show. Interesting video anyway.

 

[laughing dog]

I don't think John Galliano is racist. I think he's funny. Racist statements can be funny in the right context.

IMO:
1) a racist can be funny,
2) racists can find statements funny, and
3) if a comment is racist in the right context then it is racist.

I don’t know anything about John Galliano nor am I going to watch some video. But if he makes his living by making racist comments, , he is most likely a bigot or maybe even a racist.

 

[brewer]

I think I'll stick with being a breedist. At least I understand that.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I don't think John Galliano is racist. I think he's funny. Racist statements can be funny in the right context. Recording people out of context and filtering that context out when spreading it, and we just accepting that is INSANE. He even said he was sorry. I don't think it was necessary, but he did. People are still giving him a hard time 15 years later. Its pathetic. Noboody sensible thinks he's racist. Just look at his work! The whole ongoing controversy is a manufactured public spectacle where everyone involved knows its bullshit.

Wait... what?! Dr.Z... the guy who'll throw anyone and everyone under the "you are an anti-Semite" bus... is defending Galliano. It is stuff like this that makes me think Dr. Z is a contrarian, not a liberal, not a conservative.

Because Galliano is a fashion designer, I have never head of him before. Let alone know there was anything controversial about him.

Among the remarks Galliano made to bar patrons, circulated on video, were "I love Hitler." He also told patrons, who were Jewish, that their mothers and forefathers would have been "gassed." He also made derogatory comments to an Asian patron.

My list of things that can't be funny is very short. The Holocaust is atop that short list. One needs to be a comic genius to fiddle with the Holocaust with comedy (why Benigni's Life is Beautiful is the best movie ever made and Jerry Lewis's film is locked in a vault trillions of miles below the Earth surface).

Jonathan Greenblatt, chief executive of the Anti-Defamation League, said Monday in a post on X that the planned exhibit had been "the wrong move at the wrong moment."

"With antisemitism at crisis levels, the Met honoring John Galliano at this moment was misguided, and even Galliano ultimately recognized what the Met should have done at the start," Greenblatt said. He had met with Hollein a few weeks ago, along with a Met board member, urging the museum director to cancel, according to a person with knowledge of the situation.

Greenblatt had, in earlier comments when the show was announced, praised Galliano's efforts to repair the damage from his remarks, saying the ADL had long since accepted the designer's apology. But he also indicated the timing was difficult for such an honor and urged the museum to consider that reality.

And this is ignoring the entire thing about this being an exhibit at The Met about fashion. Oi!

 

[DrZoidberg]

I don't think John Galliano is racist. I think he's funny. Racist statements can be funny in the right context.

IMO:
1) a racist can be funny,
2) racists can find statements funny, and
3) if a comment is racist in the right context then it is racist.

I don’t know anything about John Galliano nor am I going to watch some video. But if he makes his living by making racist comments, , he is most likely a bigot or maybe even a racist.

1) John Galliano was caught on camera (twice) saying outrageous racist comments, while incredibly drunk at fashion parties. for example he says that he "loves Hitler".

2) John Galliano is famously, a flaming queen. He couldn't possibly look or behave more stereotypically gay. Not only do everybody who knows him by reputation know he's gay, but anyone who meets him is likely to clock him as gay. Super duper gay. And then there's the way he dresses. Gay as fuck.

3) It's not believable that someone gay loves Hitler. So obviously there's more to the story. We might not think that story is funny. But the idea that Galliano is litterally a Nazi is ludicrious.

4) He is one of the world's most successful fashion designers in history. He was one of the most wealthy and well paid fashion designers, until he was caught on camera saying he loves Hitler. Then he got fired. Since then he's made no money. Persona non grata. This was 2011. So he's like someone who makes money from saying racist stuff.... but the opposite.

5) Considering his high profile and the world he's in, if he really was racist he would obviously keep his mouth shut about it.

6) There's a culture among queens to say super edgy, outrageous and offensive stuff at parties. It's a gay thing. You might not like it, or think it's off colour. But they've been doing this since forever. They're not going to stop. Galliano's behaviour is very much part of that tradition. He's in good company. And I personally think it's funny as fuck. It's cruel and crass. But I must admit that I love it. You only get a good story by doing something that's a bad idea. That's, very much, the creedo. Is it self destructive? Yes. Is it funny? Yes. You will never stop being entertained when you go to these parties. They're awesome. There's a whole gay sub-culture of it. But you need to have thick skin to survive them.

 

[DrZoidberg]

I don't think John Galliano is racist. I think he's funny. Racist statements can be funny in the right context. Recording people out of context and filtering that context out when spreading it, and we just accepting that is INSANE. He even said he was sorry. I don't think it was necessary, but he did. People are still giving him a hard time 15 years later. Its pathetic. Noboody sensible thinks he's racist. Just look at his work! The whole ongoing controversy is a manufactured public spectacle where everyone involved knows its bullshit.

Wait... what?! Dr.Z... the guy who'll throw anyone and everyone under the "you are an anti-Semite" bus... is defending Galliano. It is stuff like this that makes me think Dr. Z is a contrarian, not a liberal, not a conservative.

I'm against actual anti-semitism. I care about what people mean. I care about context. I care about what's true.

I am touchy about anti-semitism. When it's actually anti-semitism. You're correct about that.

Because Galliano is a fashion designer, I have never head of him before. Let alone know there was anything controversial about him.

Among the remarks Galliano made to bar patrons, circulated on video, were "I love Hitler." He also told patrons, who were Jewish, that their mothers and forefathers would have been "gassed." He also made derogatory comments to an Asian patron.

My list of things that can't be funny is very short. The Holocaust is atop that short list. One needs to be a comic genius to fiddle with the Holocaust with comedy (why Benigni's Life is Beautiful is the best movie ever made and Jerry Lewis's film is locked in a vault trillions of miles below the Earth surface).

Jonathan Greenblatt, chief executive of the Anti-Defamation League, said Monday in a post on X that the planned exhibit had been "the wrong move at the wrong moment."

"With antisemitism at crisis levels, the Met honoring John Galliano at this moment was misguided, and even Galliano ultimately recognized what the Met should have done at the start," Greenblatt said. He had met with Hollein a few weeks ago, along with a Met board member, urging the museum director to cancel, according to a person with knowledge of the situation.

Greenblatt had, in earlier comments when the show was announced, praised Galliano's efforts to repair the damage from his remarks, saying the ADL had long since accepted the designer's apology. But he also indicated the timing was difficult for such an honor and urged the museum to consider that reality.

And this is ignoring the entire thing about this being an exhibit at The Met about fashion. Oi!

Yeah. That's very much the same as I have gleaned from this story. It's not about Galliano. With rampant antisemitism mainstream today was deemed by some rich Jewish finansiers that it might be unwise to put on a Galliano show, even though everyone who knows anything understands he wasn't really an antisemite. I don't agree with the reasoning. But I understand that American Jews might be a bit sensitive about this right now.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Because Galliano is a fashion designer, I have never head of him before. Let alone know there was anything controversial about him.

Among the remarks Galliano made to bar patrons, circulated on video, were "I love Hitler." He also told patrons, who were Jewish, that their mothers and forefathers would have been "gassed." He also made derogatory comments to an Asian patron.

My list of things that can't be funny is very short. The Holocaust is atop that short list. One needs to be a comic genius to fiddle with the Holocaust with comedy (why Benigni's Life is Beautiful is the best movie ever made and Jerry Lewis's film is locked in a vault trillions of miles below the Earth surface).

Jonathan Greenblatt, chief executive of the Anti-Defamation League, said Monday in a post on X that the planned exhibit had been "the wrong move at the wrong moment."

"With antisemitism at crisis levels, the Met honoring John Galliano at this moment was misguided, and even Galliano ultimately recognized what the Met should have done at the start," Greenblatt said. He had met with Hollein a few weeks ago, along with a Met board member, urging the museum director to cancel, according to a person with knowledge of the situation.

Greenblatt had, in earlier comments when the show was announced, praised Galliano's efforts to repair the damage from his remarks, saying the ADL had long since accepted the designer's apology. But he also indicated the timing was difficult for such an honor and urged the museum to consider that reality.

And this is ignoring the entire thing about this being an exhibit at The Met about fashion. Oi!

Yeah. That's very much the same as I have gleaned from this story. It's not about Galliano. With rampant antisemitism mainstream today was deemed by some rich Jewish finansiers that it might be unwise to put on a Galliano show, even though everyone who knows anything understands he wasn't really an antisemite. I don't agree with the reasoning. But I understand that American Jews might be a bit sensitive about this right now.

How in the heck is your statement above compatible with your thread title "Another day in woke crazy land"?

 

[pood]

Wow, look, another asinine thread from you know who!

John Galliano was found guilty of anti-semitic and racist comments 15 years ago, before the term “woke” came into modern usage. He verbally assailed Jewish people, exclaimed “I love Hitler” and told a Jewish woman that her forebears would have been “gassed.”

Haw, haw, haw! What great, funny jokes! And this thread from a guy who has repeatedly charged that those of us who oppose Netanyahu’s ethnic cleansing and genocide in Gaza are anti-Semites!

I don’t give a good goddamn about his apologies. Apologies are frequently insincere. Fuck him.

Dr. Z doesn’t think this piece of shit is a racist, but that we are!

 

[DrZoidberg]

Because Galliano is a fashion designer, I have never head of him before. Let alone know there was anything controversial about him.

Among the remarks Galliano made to bar patrons, circulated on video, were "I love Hitler." He also told patrons, who were Jewish, that their mothers and forefathers would have been "gassed." He also made derogatory comments to an Asian patron.

My list of things that can't be funny is very short. The Holocaust is atop that short list. One needs to be a comic genius to fiddle with the Holocaust with comedy (why Benigni's Life is Beautiful is the best movie ever made and Jerry Lewis's film is locked in a vault trillions of miles below the Earth surface).

Jonathan Greenblatt, chief executive of the Anti-Defamation League, said Monday in a post on X that the planned exhibit had been "the wrong move at the wrong moment."

"With antisemitism at crisis levels, the Met honoring John Galliano at this moment was misguided, and even Galliano ultimately recognized what the Met should have done at the start," Greenblatt said. He had met with Hollein a few weeks ago, along with a Met board member, urging the museum director to cancel, according to a person with knowledge of the situation.

Greenblatt had, in earlier comments when the show was announced, praised Galliano's efforts to repair the damage from his remarks, saying the ADL had long since accepted the designer's apology. But he also indicated the timing was difficult for such an honor and urged the museum to consider that reality.

And this is ignoring the entire thing about this being an exhibit at The Met about fashion. Oi!

Yeah. That's very much the same as I have gleaned from this story. It's not about Galliano. With rampant antisemitism mainstream today was deemed by some rich Jewish finansiers that it might be unwise to put on a Galliano show, even though everyone who knows anything understands he wasn't really an antisemite. I don't agree with the reasoning. But I understand that American Jews might be a bit sensitive about this right now.

How in the heck is your statement above compatible with your thread title "Another day in woke crazy land"?

Just because I understand how a decision was formed doesn't mean I agree with it.

Its still think its woke nonsense.

I think its ok to be offensive

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Nuanced views on Gaza and Israel, anti-Semitism.
Drunken anti-Semitic remarks, he was just joking.