Dear iidb: Guy babbling about Christ, evolution, and the big bang.

[Learner]

Apologies southern,

I did notice. I just didn't get around to it.
I have a slight different take to hell than you would expect. (I apologise to WAB too, he asked similar questions a while back). I have meant to rigorously study a bit more to find and better explain with indications from written passages The delay was simply: having the intention to give a decent reply, to courteously respond properly, which yours (and others) posts deserve... without the usual doing rushed posts when popping -in-and-out.
(I have shifting schedules, I'm on one now.)
Back in hour or two.

 

[Learner]

The parameter here then is what we know so far of the vast universe within our human comprehension. Ok, no probs I got it.

Moreover, it is the fundamental assumption that any system of "knowledge" or "understanding" makes.

It is one of the fundamental assumptions behind the vastly accurate modeling of our universe by physicists.

Abandoning this is the very abandonment of the idea of truth.

Ok. I'm taking note of the part in bold as a clarification reference.

Reading it as: "The biblical God is not possible - because this is derived from the fundamental assumptions as logical references, modelled on the universe by physicists."

Apologies, I just need to understand: when you say 'modelling on reality', are we establishing the grounds that an existence of God could only exist and 'not be a contradiction'....only if God was "predictably calculable" like you would , when measuring everyday natural physical events?

No, I am making a much stronger and 'harder' argument: that no "existence" of "God" is possible under any logic capable of understanding truth as consistently separate from falseness.
God (big G, Ein Sof) is impossible, cannot exist, could not ever exist, does not exist, will not exist.

This does NOT speak to 'petty little gods', creators of stimulations.

Its not a matter of whether it is "predictably calculable". I wager that out universe is only "calculable moment by moment from a given frame" rather than "predictably calculable": it's something whose evolution can only be observed through evolving a suitable model of the system step by step.
I am saying that logically speaking, "the set of all sets", which is what you would consider God, has been logically ruled out as an idea worth holding on to.

I think Russell's Paradox could be a mistake (by him) if it's applied as an argument to the biblical God.

For example: The Set of all sets fits nicely the description of Pantheism i.e.that says ALL things, the cosmos, the earth etc and etc. is ONE physical entity.

The God of the bible is not seen that way according to the theology.. God is understood to be a separate entity, distinct rom the universe, a spirit not physical...distinct from his creation which therefore is saying:

The God of the bible can not be a Set of sets! In this regard Russel's Paradox is not the right argument imo.

Learner, perhaps you never read my previous post. So, I'll ask you again. Are you a Christian who believes that anyone who doesn't believe in the same version of god that you do is going to spend eternity being tortured in hell?

Hi southernhybrid,

To be honest I am not sure if its quite like that. I have mentioned before on one of the threads, perhaps two or three years ago that I thought people were punished according to their sin, ranging from trivial sin (stealing apples) to extreme evil (obsessions to rape & murder etc.). Basically, if there was a one-fits-all punishment, then that wouldn't make sense, contradicting being punished according to the level of sin!

I'm just giving you a quick outline of my thoughts on hell because I haven't had time to put together the verses that indicate an alternative view, which to some degree is still similar to the convention but not so much. There are others out there who are scrutinizing the texts who could explain much better, and will have some disagreements with other hell-conventionalist theists.

Obviously there is that confliction that outsiders (non believers) bring up the combination of a 'Loving God' and an 'everlasting hell' where people are condemned for etenity. To be honest : I was never certain of the context. For example: even Hell and death are thrown in the Lake of Fire. Does hell and death and people Burn forever?
Or...
.....does it make more sense if the context is actually saying Burned up forever? Exist no more.


I've just found some verses for now:

• Malachi 4:1 — "The day is coming that will burn like a furnace; all the arrogant and every evildoer will be stubble..."
• 2 Peter 3:7 — "But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist are stored up for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men."
• 2 Peter 3:10 — "But the day of the Lord will come like a thief... and the elements will be dissolved by fire, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be burned up."
• Revelation 20:9–10 — Nations surround the camp of the saints; fire comes down from heaven and devours them; the devil is thrown into the lake of fire.
• Revelation 20:14–15 — Death and Hades are thrown into the lake of fire; anyone whose name isn't in the book of life is thrown in.

Book of life as opposed to death. No life...dead!

Evangelicals believe that, including the ones who raised me although my mom finally told my husband that I was too good of a person to go to hell. Does the all loving god that you believe in send people to a hellish eternity or are you a more liberal type of Christians who cherry picks the sweeter cherries in the Bible and throws out the bitter ones? You can answer yes or no or go into detail if you like. Since you are still here after all this time, I've just wondered if you're a Biblical literalist or not. Thanks for your time.

I am literalist but I believe the issues are more about word meaning and contextual interpretations: Literally Jesus was portrayed so loving , God created man, Jesus was ressurected etc & etc...our sins are forgivable.

Thousands of theists are studying and scrutinizing, and it will be a combined universal effort that contributes to the understanding. A working progress as I use Daniel 12.4 who didn't understand the prophesy that came to him of the future, where God replied:

Daniel 12:4
“But you, Daniel, keep this message a secret. You must close the book and keep this secret until the time of the end (last days) Many people will go here and there looking for true knowledge, and the true knowledge will increase.”

I'm sorry its another post in haste. I have a family meet. Thanks for the discussion.

 

[southernhybrid]

@ Learner. Thanks for replying. It sounds to me as if you don't know what you believe when it comes to some of the Christian views of an afterlife.

One of my sisters never left Christianity and I often think she has no idea what version she believes. She told me many years ago that she's not sure I'm going to hell. Our stupid childhood religion did so much damage to her but she doesn't even realize it. Anyway, she and I try to avoid discussions of religion now and that works. I guess whatever floats your boat, as long as you don't try to pull others into your boat, works for me.