Epstein, Kiddies, And Trump. Oh, My

[ZiprHead]

Why not call the police when it happened?

Why do you keep asking this question when it has been answered several times for you?

 

[Elixir]

Why not call the police when it happened?

Why do you keep asking this question when it has been answered several times for you?

When a person has difficulty “putting themselves in others’ shoes” it’s commonly called a lack of empathy. I think Derec can’t get past “if it was me I’d do ‘x’”.

 

[Elixir]

 

[Toni]

Derec says he’s not MAGA and I believe him. I also believe that he never supported Trump and dues not now support Trump.

Judging by his posting history, Derec seems to have little to zero sympathy for or empathy with female rape victims.

Which is fine: his choice and hardly a unique choice at that. Sadly enough.

The part I have trouble overcoming is the apparent failure of Derec and people like him to understand that their attitudes are directly responsible for women and girls and men and boys being extremely reluctant to file police reports at all, much less immediately after the assault.

Rape is an especially intimate form of assault directed towards portions of the anatomy rich nerve endings: it is extremely painful in a particular kind of way. Being raped is an extreme betrayal. It betrays trust, and violates the victim’s sense of safety, privacy, personal integrity. To the victim, it is crazy, irrational and because it is difficult or impossible to understand why anyone would do such a thing, the mind tries to filll in reasons—hence the self blame, the questioning of what you did wrong, if somehow you provoked the attack, of you somehow gave the wrong impression. I don’t know if this sort of response would happen if there were not thousands of years of tradition that demands female outlets and incessantly blames females for any harm that they suffer. It doesn’t matter because society as a whole certainly reinforces every bit of self doubt, Shane and self blame, including from the police department, who are sworn to serve and protect but mostly just ridicule and blame victims.

It is easiest to report raises if the rapist was a stranger lying in waiting a parking lot, preferably when you got off of your shift as a pediatric nurse or some other blameless victim by stereotype. Better still if the rapist is black or brown or foreign.

It is much harder if the rapist is a friend, a boyfriend, a lover, a spouse, your father or brother or cousin or uncle or grandfather or teacher or coach. There are so many repercussions, so much fallout. So much opportunity for blame.

Now: imagine the rapist is a rich and powerful influential person. Imagine if you wanted to be introduced because you were made to understand this person could help your career. Imagine the self recriminations for not knowing what would happen. Imagine the doubts that you will be believed. Imagine the army of lawyers who will just be waiting to force you to publicly talk about intimate details of your sex life.

It’s not surprising that a lot of victims wait days or weeks or years to report. It’s surprising than any ever do.

Because of people like Derec and others here in this forum and in the world at large who always find any allegation of sexual misconduct to be suspect.

Even though Trump is famous/infamous for bragging about grabbing women whether they wanted it or not: he didn’t even bother to ask. It was just a perk of being rich.

 

[Patooka]

Now: imagine the rapist is a rich and powerful influential person. Imagine if you wanted to be introduced because you were made to understand this person could help your career. Imagine the self recriminations for not knowing what would happen. Imagine the doubts that you will be believed. Imagine the army of lawyers who will just be waiting to force you to publicly talk about intimate details of your sex life.

It’s not surprising that a lot of victims wait days or weeks or years to report. It’s surprising than any ever do.

Because of people like Derec and others here in this forum and in the world at large who always find any allegation of sexual misconduct to be suspect.

Even though Trump is famous/infamous for bragging about grabbing women whether they wanted it or not: he didn’t even bother to ask. It was just a perk of being rich.

It's worth pointing out that Trump stated IN FRONT OF A FUCKING CAMERA DURING A COURT DEPOSITION that this "kind of stuff" has been going on for "millions of years, rightly or wrongly" as though that's an argument that helps his case.

 

[Derec]

Derec says he’s not MAGA and I believe him. I also believe that he never supported Trump and dues not now support Trump.

Thank you.

Judging by his posting history, Derec seems to have little to zero sympathy for or empathy with female rape victims.

That is not true. But I also have sympathy with people who are wrongly accused of rape.
Rape is easily to accuse somebody of, but difficult to defend against. That goes especially when the claims are from years or even decades before.

The part I have trouble overcoming is the apparent failure of Derec and people like him to understand that their attitudes are directly responsible for women and girls and men and boys being extremely reluctant to file police reports at all, much less immediately after the assault.

Given that my attitude is that we should go by evidence, I do not see how it could possibly be responsible for people being reluctant to go to the police right away. That's when you have the best chance of getting sufficient evidence to go forward, unlike when you wait for decades.

It doesn’t matter because society as a whole certainly reinforces every bit of self doubt, Shane and self blame, including from the police department, who are sworn to serve and protect but mostly just ridicule and blame victims.

These days, the society does the opposite. The accused is prejudged as guilty, and can endure negative consequences even when he is acquitted or the case is dropped.

It is easiest to report raises if the rapist was a stranger lying in waiting a parking lot, preferably when you got off of your shift as a pediatric nurse or some other blameless victim by stereotype.

That's because when there is some sort of history between the two the evidence can be very equivocal - if there was sex, was there consent or not? And that's a question that matching somebody's DNA cannot answer.

Better still if the rapist is black or brown or foreign.

Bullshit. It's exactly the opposite. Remember Duke Lacrosse? The reason they were prejudged as guilty so quickly and so forcefully from so many sides (from the 88 Duke professors to pundits on CNN) is that they were white and the accuser was black.

And foreign? Foreigners from places like Afghanistan and Syria are disproportionately involved in rape in Europe, but pointing that out is not politically correct.
This is from Sweden: Dangerous refugees: Afghan Muslim migrants 79 times more likely to rape
But the Left insists that we need more, not less, Muslim mass migrants from places like Afghanistan.

It is much harder if the rapist is a friend, a boyfriend, a lover, a spouse, your father or brother or cousin or uncle or grandfather or teacher or coach. There are so many repercussions, so much fallout. So much opportunity for blame.

For the first several of these categories the issue is predominately one of evidence. When you make a claim like this, you have to prove it.

Now: imagine the rapist is a rich and powerful influential person.

Imagine a rich and powerful person. He'd make a good target for a false accusation. You could use it (to use details from another case) to promote your book. Or even sue him for $5M. There is no way he can disprove the allegations if you say it happend sometime in the mid-90s or so.

Imagine if you wanted to be introduced because you were made to understand this person could help your career.

If you had consensual sex with him because you hoped he'd help your career, than that's not rape. No matter how you felt about that transaction later.

Imagine the self recriminations for not knowing what would happen. Imagine the doubts that you will be believed. Imagine the army of lawyers who will just be waiting to force you to publicly talk about intimate details of your sex life.

Anybody accused of rape deserves the right to defend himself. That includes the right to confront your accusers and have his lawyer cross-examine her.

It’s not surprising that a lot of victims wait days or weeks or years to report. It’s surprising than any ever do.

But years later, there is little evidence left. Even weeks later, physical evidence that may be collected in a rape kit would not exist any more.

Because of people like Derec and others here in this forum and in the world at large who always find any allegation of sexual misconduct to be suspect.

I prefer to think about things critically, which means being skeptical of accusation offered without evidence. That does not mean it's not true, just that we can't know whether they are true or not. So we should not blindly believe her.

Even though Trump is famous/infamous for bragging about grabbing women whether they wanted it or not: he didn’t even bother to ask. It was just a perk of being rich.

Sorry, but Trump running his mouth and bragging about what many women let him do because he is rich and famous does not constitute evidence that this woman was really attacked 35 years ago.

 

[Derec]

When a person has difficulty “putting themselves in others’ shoes” it’s commonly called a lack of empathy. I think Derec can’t get past “if it was me I’d do ‘x’”.

Not at all. It's not about what whether somebody would do x or y. People are different and they do different things. But when you wait that long, there is very low chance of any real evidence still being extant. So how can we possibly know whether it's true or not?

I honestly do not know what I would do in a similar circumstance. But I also do not think it matters. There are two possibilites.

1. She really was sexually assaulted and didn't want to say anything for whatever psychological reason.
2. She made it up and 35 year gulf is convenient because while there is no likely evidence extant to corroborate her story, there likely isn't any evidence to disprove it either.

The problem is not what I would do in her shoes. The problem is that without evidence we cannot choose between these two possibilities.

 

[Elixir]

Now: imagine the rapist is a rich and powerful influential person. Imagine if you wanted to be introduced because you were made to understand this person could help your career. Imagine the self recriminations for not knowing what would happen. Imagine the doubts that you will be believed. Imagine the army of lawyers who will just be waiting to force you to publicly talk about intimate details of your sex life.

It’s not surprising that a lot of victims wait days or weeks or years to report. It’s surprising than any ever do.

Because of people like Derec and others here in this forum and in the world at large who always find any allegation of sexual misconduct to be suspect.

Even though Trump is famous/infamous for bragging about grabbing women whether they wanted it or not: he didn’t even bother to ask. It was just a perk of being rich.

It's worth pointing out that Trump stated IN FRONT OF A FUCKING CAMERA DURING A COURT DEPOSITION that this "kind of stuff" has been going on for "millions of years, rightly or wrongly" as though that's an argument that helps his case.

Water is wet and Trump is a troglodytic moron, rapist and fraud.
I don’t think there are many who don’t know that, but it is alarming how many don’t care, and are willing to be led around by the nose by such a person.

 

[Toni]

Derec says he’s not MAGA and I believe him. I also believe that he never supported Trump and dues not now support Trump.

Thank you.

Judging by his posting history, Derec seems to have little to zero sympathy for or empathy with female rape victims.

That is not true. But I also have sympathy with people who are wrongly accused of rape.
Rape is easily to accuse somebody of, but difficult to defend against. That goes especially when the claims are from years or even decades before.

The part I have trouble overcoming is the apparent failure of Derec and people like him to understand that their attitudes are directly responsible for women and girls and men and boys being extremely reluctant to file police reports at all, much less immediately after the assault.

Given that my attitude is that we should go by evidence, I do not see how it could possibly be responsible for people being reluctant to go to the police right away. That's when you have the best chance of getting sufficient evidence to go forward, unlike when you wait for decades.

It doesn’t matter because society as a whole certainly reinforces every bit of self doubt, Shane and self blame, including from the police department, who are sworn to serve and protect but mostly just ridicule and blame victims.

These days, the society does the opposite. The accused is prejudged as guilty, and can endure negative consequences even when he is acquitted or the case is dropped.

It is easiest to report raises if the rapist was a stranger lying in waiting a parking lot, preferably when you got off of your shift as a pediatric nurse or some other blameless victim by stereotype.

That's because when there is some sort of history between the two the evidence can be very equivocal - if there was sex, was there consent or not? And that's a question that matching somebody's DNA cannot answer.

Better still if the rapist is black or brown or foreign.

Bullshit. It's exactly the opposite. Remember Duke Lacrosse? The reason they were prejudged as guilty so quickly and so forcefully from so many sides (from the 88 Duke professors to pundits on CNN) is that they were white and the accuser was black.

And foreign? Foreigners from places like Afghanistan and Syria are disproportionately involved in rape in Europe, but pointing that out is not politically correct.
This is from Sweden: Dangerous refugees: Afghan Muslim migrants 79 times more likely to rape
But the Left insists that we need more, not less, Muslim mass migrants from places like Afghanistan.

It is much harder if the rapist is a friend, a boyfriend, a lover, a spouse, your father or brother or cousin or uncle or grandfather or teacher or coach. There are so many repercussions, so much fallout. So much opportunity for blame.

For the first several of these categories the issue is predominately one of evidence. When you make a claim like this, you have to prove it.

Now: imagine the rapist is a rich and powerful influential person.

Imagine a rich and powerful person. He'd make a good target for a false accusation. You could use it (to use details from another case) to promote your book. Or even sue him for $5M. There is no way he can disprove the allegations if you say it happend sometime in the mid-90s or so.

Imagine if you wanted to be introduced because you were made to understand this person could help your career.

If you had consensual sex with him because you hoped he'd help your career, than that's not rape. No matter how you felt about that transaction later.

Imagine the self recriminations for not knowing what would happen. Imagine the doubts that you will be believed. Imagine the army of lawyers who will just be waiting to force you to publicly talk about intimate details of your sex life.

Anybody accused of rape deserves the right to defend himself. That includes the right to confront your accusers and have his lawyer cross-examine her.

It’s not surprising that a lot of victims wait days or weeks or years to report. It’s surprising than any ever do.

But years later, there is little evidence left. Even weeks later, physical evidence that may be collected in a rape kit would not exist any more.

Because of people like Derec and others here in this forum and in the world at large who always find any allegation of sexual misconduct to be suspect.

I prefer to think about things critically, which means being skeptical of accusation offered without evidence. That does not mean it's not true, just that we can't know whether they are true or not. So we should not blindly believe her.

Even though Trump is famous/infamous for bragging about grabbing women whether they wanted it or not: he didn’t even bother to ask. It was just a perk of being rich.

Sorry, but Trump running his mouth and bragging about what many women let him do because he is rich and famous does not constitute evidence that this woman was really attacked 35 years ago.

The person who is accused in this particular case is Donald Trump who has publicly described grabbing women by their crotch and touching them and kissing them without their consent. He is known to have been best buddies with Epstein, and accusations against him for forcible rape of a minor go back decades but were ignored by the FBI.

Yes, years later there is little evidence left and perhaps none at all. So it comes down to credibility of the parties involved.

I do not see how anyone can give credit to Donald J Trump for an accurate or truthful recounting of any event, even if it happened on camera 1 minute ago. The same was true 10 years ago or 20 or 30.

 

[Elixir]

Swiz’s choice for someone to lead him, and whom Derec is eager to absolve …
If looks could kill he would die at the next mirror.

Jabba the Hutt without makeup.

 

[Toni]

When a person has difficulty “putting themselves in others’ shoes” it’s commonly called a lack of empathy. I think Derec can’t get past “if it was me I’d do ‘x’”.

Not at all. It's not about what whether somebody would do x or y. People are different and they do different things. But when you wait that long, there is very low chance of any real evidence still being extant. So how can we possibly know whether it's true or not?

I honestly do not know what I would do in a similar circumstance. But I also do not think it matters. There are two possibilites.

1. She really was sexually assaulted and didn't want to say anything for whatever psychological reason.
2. She made it up and 35 year gulf is convenient because while there is no likely evidence extant to corroborate her story, there likely isn't any evidence to disprove it either.

The problem is not what I would do in her shoes. The problem is that without evidence we cannot choose between these two possibilities.

We rarely ‘know’ anything with 100% certainty.

It is worth noting that Trump’s accusers are not attempting to press charges in criminal court.

When you hear the same story over and over and over again about someone’s behavior, most of us are inclined to believe the stories. Especially when they comport with things the accuser has said in public on camera.

 

[TomC]

1. She really was sexually assaulted and didn't want to say anything for whatever psychological reason.
2. She made it up and 35 year gulf is convenient because while there is no likely evidence extant to corroborate her story, there likely isn't any evidence to disprove it either.

The problem is not what I would do in her shoes. The problem is that without evidence we cannot choose between these two possibilities.

There's even more to it than that.

People's memories change over decades. Particularly in situations like this. She might firmly believe that what she remembers is what happened. But she has lots of motivation to misremember.
Humans are very prone to remembering things the way they want them to have been.
Tom

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

When a person has difficulty “putting themselves in others’ shoes” it’s commonly called a lack of empathy. I think Derec can’t get past “if it was me I’d do ‘x’”.

Not at all. It's not about what whether somebody would do x or y. People are different and they do different things. But when you wait that long, there is very low chance of any real evidence still being extant. So how can we possibly know whether it's true or not?

I honestly do not know what I would do in a similar circumstance. But I also do not think it matters. There are two possibilites.

1. She really was sexually assaulted and didn't want to say anything for whatever psychological reason.
2. She made it up and 35 year gulf is convenient because while there is no likely evidence extant to corroborate her story, there likely isn't any evidence to disprove it either.

The problem is not what I would do in her shoes. The problem is that without evidence we cannot choose between these two possibilities.

There's also option#3, similar to option#1, not reporting it because of socio-cultural / institutional reasons.

 

[Ford]

When a person has difficulty “putting themselves in others’ shoes” it’s commonly called a lack of empathy. I think Derec can’t get past “if it was me I’d do ‘x’”.

Not at all. It's not about what whether somebody would do x or y. People are different and they do different things. But when you wait that long, there is very low chance of any real evidence still being extant. So how can we possibly know whether it's true or not?

I honestly do not know what I would do in a similar circumstance. But I also do not think it matters. There are two possibilites.

1. She really was sexually assaulted and didn't want to say anything for whatever psychological reason.
2. She made it up and 35 year gulf is convenient because while there is no likely evidence extant to corroborate her story, there likely isn't any evidence to disprove it either.

The problem is not what I would do in her shoes. The problem is that without evidence we cannot choose between these two possibilities.

There's also option#3, similar to option#1, not reporting it because of socio-cultural / institutional reasons.

I think it is apparent that Derec is discounting the impact of repeated abuse on the human psyche. This is something I learned while living through my ex-wife's emergence after years of physical, mental, verbal, and sexual abuse at the hands of a violent psychopath. I'm reminded of the "well why doesn't she just leave her abuser?" refrain from people who have no context.

Also, consider the victims of abuse at the hands of the Catholic church. "Well why didn't you come forward about this stuff 30 years ago?" can be answered with "because a centuries old institution with nearly limitless wealth and power isn't something a scared little kid who's been diddled can be expected to stand up against."

Admitting to abuse is incredibly difficult for any number of reasons, including shame, fear of retribution from unspeakably powerful entities, and also the desire to "just put it all past you" as society seems to think is healthy. As I may have mentioned before, my ex was so traumatized by her abuser that she more or less created an alternate personality to survive. On some level, i thought it was great when we started dating and she was like "whatever it takes to satisfy my man is good with me" but it turned out that the relatively meek, submissive person I met was a defense mechanism against a guy who held a gun to her head while he raped her.

How long would it take a well-adjusted person to overcome that sort of thing? How about a person who'd grown up in an abusive household with an alcoholic drug addicted father where violence and insanity was simply part of life? Not only can it take years or even decades to extricate yourself from such a situation, but it can become generational. We wound up taking my step-daughter to therapy when she was 8 years old and found out that her concept of what was "normal" was almost hopelessly skewed. Not because she'd been physically abused herself, but because she saw it for the first 6 years of her life and even at that age had developed coping strategies in order to protect herself.

And bringing it back around to the Epstein files, imagine if you'd gone through all of that trauma, figured out a way to get through all of it, and when it looked like maybe you'd be able to get some closure (even though your abuser was dead) the ENTIRE EXECUTIVE BRANCH OF THE US GOVERNMENT decided that your experience was all a lie and you just had "Trump Derangement Syndrome."

But what do I know?

 

[Elixir]

...imagine if you'd gone through all of that trauma, figured out a way to get through all of it, and when it looked like maybe you'd be able to get some closure (even though your abuser was dead) the ENTIRE EXECUTIVE BRANCH OF THE US GOVERNMENT decided that your experience was all a lie and you just had "Trump Derangement Syndrome" But what do I know?

You know the same things Derec knows. Strong assertions sans evidence are far more acceptable coming from wealthy white serial criminals than from allegedly abused women. After all, what are we to do? Ruin the lives of fine upstanding people, on the basis of some shit they are being fed by some woman with everything to gain and nothing to lose ...Thank god for democracy!

 

[laughing dog]

When a person has difficulty “putting themselves in others’ shoes” it’s commonly called a lack of empathy. I think Derec can’t get past “if it was me I’d do ‘x’”.

Not at all. It's not about what whether somebody would do x or y. People are different and they do different things. But when you wait that long, there is very low chance of any real evidence still being extant. So how can we possibly know whether it's true or not?

I honestly do not know what I would do in a similar circumstance. But I also do not think it matters. There are two possibilites.

1. She really was sexually assaulted and didn't want to say anything for whatever psychological reason.
2. She made it up and 35 year gulf is convenient because while there is no likely evidence extant to corroborate her story, there likely isn't any evidence to disprove it either.

The problem is not what I would do in her shoes. The problem is that without evidence we cannot choose between these two possibilities.

Of course, people have the option to always make a choice. Many people do. You choose to disbelieve. Others choose to believe.

 

[Toni]

1. She really was sexually assaulted and didn't want to say anything for whatever psychological reason.
2. She made it up and 35 year gulf is convenient because while there is no likely evidence extant to corroborate her story, there likely isn't any evidence to disprove it either.

The problem is not what I would do in her shoes. The problem is that without evidence we cannot choose between these two possibilities.

There's even more to it than that.

People's memories change over decades. Particularly in situations like this. She might firmly believe that what she remembers is what happened. But she has lots of motivation to misremember.
Humans are very prone to remembering things the way they want them to have been.
Tom

The motivation to ‘misremember’ tends to be to minimize and even suppress, not exaggerate.

Compare to Trump’s motivation to deny.

 

[ZiprHead]

JFC. Epstein involved in cases in Michigan.

Over 70 victims allege sex abuse at Interlochen, and 4 other major stories

These are some of MLive's top headlines you might've missed to help get your morning started on Wednesday, July 29, 2026.

www.mlive.com

More than 70 former students and campers at Interlochen Center for the Arts have reported sexual assaults that allegedly occurred over several decades, according to a report released Tuesday by the institution.

The 97-page report details accounts involving 47 adults formerly affiliated with the school, including former faculty, counselors, visiting artists and trustees. The alleged assaults span from the 1950s through the 2010s, according to the investigation conducted by Sanghavi Law Office, LLC.

“The abuse described in the report is heartbreaking and is contrary to everything Interlochen stands for,” Interlochen President Trey Devey and Board Chairman Barrett Rollins said in a joint statement. “We cannot change the past, but we can be unequivocal in stating that this behavior has no place at the Interlochen we care for, not then, not now, and not in the future.”

The report highlights multiple cases, including one former faculty member and administrator who worked at the school from 1960 to 2015 and was the subject of seven independent reports of sexual misconduct.

The investigation also includes allegations involving Jeffrey Epstein, who was a regular visitor and donor to the school. Epstein contributed nearly $500,000 to Interlochen between 1990 and 2003 and reportedly met his first known victim at the camp in 1994. The report documents two additional sexual assault allegations involving Epstein that had not previously been reported.

This is the place that was referred to as "band camp".

 

[Patooka]

Mike Jonson bravely running away from another discharge petition to release Epstein Files yet again.