The ‘Illiterate Boyfriend’ test

[ideologyhunter]

Gore Vidal was talking about the death of linear type 40 years ago. Who can be surprised that people have vocabularies that derive from click bait, navel-gazing podcasts, TikTok vids, and the like? Who reads books, outside of the James Patterson spastic diarrhea that is built of paragraphs suitable for chipmunks? In waiting rooms, I'm usually the only one holding a book. Guess what everyone else is staring at?

Don't be too sure. I have the Kindle app on my phone. Haven't dealt with a dead tree book in years, doesn't mean I don't read books.

I hear ya, but it's pretty easy to spot if a phone gazer is intent on a major text or just diddling. The thumb action tells me what I suspect in just about every case.
One day at our local coffee shop an American Tourist Family strolled in -- mom, dad, brother, sister. They ordered, sat down. Then each of the four pulled out a smart phone and got lost in little squiggles of gossip, news bites, graphics, whatever. They seemed to have an unspoken rule about not talking to one another during phone time. At any rate they sat there for a good 25 minutes before they were all finished with food and drink, and then they decamped. Jesus Christ -- is there a better metaphor for how tech takes away simple pleasures? Can you imagine them years later: "Remember that trip we took to the lake? And we found that fun little coffee shop? Wasn't that the best?" Yeah, hardly. They shared nothing of the experience, at least from where I sat. A time traveller from, say, 1990, would have watched this little group and been completely mystified. "Why is everyone staring at his or her little plastic rectangle? Why aren't they talking? Do they know each other? Do they have restraining orders on each other?"

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Hors d’oeuvres is easily one of the most commonly mispelled and mispronounced words in the English language

C’est vrai! Quelle dommage.

Borrow words, once they enter common use in a new language, are no longer really the property of their original tongue. Or if they are, nearly everyone in the country is pronouncing hors d'oeuvres wrong. The French are well known for their uvular fricative Rs, which most Americans couldn't produce correctly if they tried.

It takes a lot of practice for an adult to learn to say sounds they didn't learn as a child. Many will never be able to. That is not remotely illiteracy.

I know how to correctly say my last name, I almost never do, though, because that will confuse people--that's a German "ch" sound, not something English speakers learn. Strangely, my father did not know how, I learned it from my mother.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

... and more often than not, tests of "correctness" are actually tests for membership of a sub-culture, a tribe, or a social stratum.

Ah, the York Intelligence Test, where you ask someone to pronounce the word "unionized".

Also, how do you pronounce POLISH?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

... and more often than not, tests of "correctness" are actually tests for membership of a sub-culture, a tribe, or a social stratum.

Ah, the York Intelligence Test, where you ask someone to pronounce the word "unionized".

During WWII, Dutch people would ask suspected German infiltrators to pronounce “Scheveningen”. A Dutch person tried to explain me why, a long time ago.
“It’s pronounced ‘Scheveningen’, and Germans ALWAYS pronounced it ‘Scheveningen’. “
Apparently there’s a dead giveaway in there somewhere.

Don't know that particular one but using sounds not in the enemy language has been a standard tactic for exposing infiltrators for a very long time.

 

[Bomb#20]

I know how to correctly say my last name, I almost never do, though, because that will confuse people--that's a German "ch" sound, not something English speakers learn. Strangely, my father did not know how, I learned it from my mother.

That's crazy, though. English speakers typically do learn that sound, because it's found in one familiar English term. The same people who say "Bock" instead of "Bach" somehow manage to perfectly pronounce "Loch Ness Monster".

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I know how to correctly say my last name, I almost never do, though, because that will confuse people--that's a German "ch" sound, not something English speakers learn. Strangely, my father did not know how, I learned it from my mother.

That's crazy, though. English speakers typically do learn that sound, because it's found in one familiar English term. The same people who say "Bock" instead of "Bach" somehow manage to perfectly pronounce "Loch Ness Monster".

But do they actually learn it? My experience is they can't say it right. Next time it comes up I'll see what they do with that monster.

 

[Politesse]

It takes a lot of practice for an adult to learn to say sounds they didn't learn as a child.

Tell me about it! I spent a summer in my younger days trying to learn Diné Bizaad, the Navajo language. It didn't exactly go well. My dig partner was fluent, and tried his best to help, but he didn't know enough about articulatory phonetics to explain what I was doing wrong.

One interesting fact about babies is that when they are babbling, they can reproduce the sounds of just about any human language, and often do make sounds their parents wouldn't recognize or distinguish from others. But then there's a remarkably abrupt transition where their range of sounds drastically reduces, and they are babbling with mostly just the common sounds of their parents' language(s). For most kids, you can expect their first word a couple weeks later, maybe less. Phonemes, the fundamental sounds of speech, are the base of the whole complex pyramid of intelligible speech. You can understand without them, but not speak without them.

 

[Tigers!]

Gore Vidal was talking about the death of linear type 40 years ago. Who can be surprised that people have vocabularies that derive from click bait, navel-gazing podcasts, TikTok vids, and the like? Who reads books, outside of the James Patterson spastic diarrhea that is built of paragraphs suitable for chipmunks? In waiting rooms, I'm usually the only one holding a book. Guess what everyone else is staring at?

Don't be too sure. I have the Kindle app on my phone. Haven't dealt with a dead tree book in years, doesn't mean I don't read books.

I hear ya, but it's pretty easy to spot if a phone gazer is intent on a major text or just diddling. The thumb action tells me what I suspect in just about every case.
One day at our local coffee shop an American Tourist Family strolled in -- mom, dad, brother, sister. They ordered, sat down. Then each of the four pulled out a smart phone and got lost in little squiggles of gossip, news bites, graphics, whatever. They seemed to have an unspoken rule about not talking to one another during phone time. At any rate they sat there for a good 25 minutes before they were all finished with food and drink, and then they decamped. Jesus Christ -- is there a better metaphor for how tech takes away simple pleasures? Can you imagine them years later: "Remember that trip we took to the lake? And we found that fun little coffee shop? Wasn't that the best?" Yeah, hardly. They shared nothing of the experience, at least from where I sat. A time traveller from, say, 1990, would have watched this little group and been completely mystified. "Why is everyone staring at his or her little plastic rectangle? Why aren't they talking? Do they know each other? Do they have restraining orders on each other?"

For me that behaviour gets close to home.
My daughter reached teenager years about the time the iPhone invasion began. She did not get a phone for years but eventually we relented.
Rules - no phone at the table, talk to guests, no talking all hours etc.
Now being married she and hubby will come around. Sit at table, eat, talk until food is done then out comes the phone

 

[Tigers!]

I know how to correctly say my last name, I almost never do, though, because that will confuse people--that's a German "ch" sound, not something English speakers learn. Strangely, my father did not know how, I learned it from my mother.

That's crazy, though. English speakers typically do learn that sound, because it's found in one familiar English term. The same people who say "Bock" instead of "Bach" somehow manage to perfectly pronounce "Loch Ness Monster".

Loch is Scottish Gaelic
Bach is German.
Simples.

 

[Politesse]

The unvoiced velar fricative, [x] to linguists. Part of our common Germanic heritage. It used to exist in all dialects of English but now survives only in Scots.

 

[Elixir]

Well it is called the English language and not the American language.

It takes a lot of practice for an adult to learn to say sounds they didn't learn as a child.

Tell me about it! I spent a summer in my younger days trying to learn Diné Bizaad, the Navajo language. It didn't exactly go well. My dig partner was fluent, and tried his best to help, but he didn't know enough about articulatory phonetics to explain what I was doing wrong.

One interesting fact about babies is that when they are babbling, they can reproduce the sounds of just about any human language, and often do make sounds their parents wouldn't recognize or distinguish from others. But then there's a remarkably abrupt transition where their range of sounds drastically reduces, and they are babbling with mostly just the common sounds of their parents' language(s). For most kids, you can expect their first word a couple weeks later, maybe less. Phonemes, the fundamental sounds of speech, are the base of the whole complex pyramid of intelligible speech. You can understand without them, but not speak without them.

Right. I recall someone’s treatise observing that a baby learning a language is learning to restrict its vocalizations, not expand them.

 

[brewer]

 

[Playball40]

Gore Vidal was talking about the death of linear type 40 years ago. Who can be surprised that people have vocabularies that derive from click bait, navel-gazing podcasts, TikTok vids, and the like? Who reads books, outside of the James Patterson spastic diarrhea that is built of paragraphs suitable for chipmunks? In waiting rooms, I'm usually the only one holding a book. Guess what everyone else is staring at?
In any case, if some guy --or young woman -- is asked to take an assessment before a relationship can proceed, there's a protocol.

She: I would like you to take this little assessment. It will ask you to pronounce a list of words.
He: Oh, sure. But I'll need a favor from you.
She: Such as...?
He: Would you agree to take the Dees Assessment for me?
She: Well, what does that consist of?
He (pointing) Dees nuts!!

I agree people don't read like they used to, but I would STILL rather people read James Patterson, than stare at TikTok or FB. I would rather my kids read a comic book than NO BOOK.

 

[Playball40]

I've heard of other unreasonable standards women are posting. Maybe they can find a nice incel.

Yeah, there's a thing called "The three sixes" that's going around:

What Happens When Singles Follow the 6-6-6 Rule

Key points​

• The 6-6-6 rule sets six-feet-tall, six-figure salary, and six-pack abs or six-inch length as minimum limits.
• It's not clear how many women actually follow the 6-6-6 dating rule. But it is becoming a stereotype of women.
• Beware of using "women are too picky" as an excuse for dating woes rather than looking at what you are doing.
• The 6-6-6 rule can be a clear indication of superficiality, which can actually save you time and effort.

Women are going to have start lowering their standards when it comes to men. The prospects for marraige for young women in the very near future are rather grim.

You didn't actually read that article did you?

That said, I see way more MEN saying they will only use the 36-24-36 rule when dating than the 6-6-6 rule.

I've been happily married a very long time so I don't remember 'dating' so much. BUT, I CAN say intelligence, sense of humor, similar beliefs and morals were way more important than looks. Or should I say that intelligence, sense of humor, similar beliefs and morals MADE them attractive. My husband is not 6ft, did not make 6 figures back then and never had 6 pack abs (yuck). That said, he was and still is the sexiest man alive!!!!

 

[Playball40]

Hors d’oeuvres is easily one of the most commonly misspelled and mispronounced words in the English language, getting it wrong may be embarassing but it is hardly proof of illiteracy. And though I can readily guess at its meaning, I don't think I have ever encountered the word "diaphragmatic" before reading this article, and I would have to look up its "correct" pronunication, as either a voiced or silent G is plausible given the customary inconsistency with which American dialects handle borrow words from the Greek. I scored very highly on the GRE and passed the GWAR with flying colors, so not only am I officially literate, according to our local racists I am objectively a literary genius. A standardized test says so, after all.

It makes me wonder how many of the young women adminstering this test had to look up the answers before grading the results. I assure you, as a professional educator, than mispronunciations of "hyperbole" are not a phenomenon strictly found within one sex.

When I was a kid, I always read "Penelope" incorrectly. I used to think, what a stupid sounding name.

 

[Playball40]

My stepdad was from London. My mom was from W Virginia. They used to have disputes all the time about the correct pronunciation of words. Like does jaguar have two syllables or three?

 

[Bronzeage]

My stepdad was from London. My mom was from W Virginia. They used to have disputes all the time about the correct pronunciation of words. Like does jaguar have two syllables or three?

The Latin curriculum I studied emphasized pronunciation and oration, using what is thought to be classical Latin as spoken by Cicero and Julius Caesar. It's always funny to me when I see an old British movie where the child of upper class twits calls their parents "MAY-ter" and "PAY-ter."

 

[Tigers!]

My stepdad was from London. My mom was from W Virginia. They used to have disputes all the time about the correct pronunciation of words. Like does jaguar have two syllables or three?

Three
Jag-u-ar

 

[ideologyhunter]

Gore Vidal was talking about the death of linear type 40 years ago. Who can be surprised that people have vocabularies that derive from click bait, navel-gazing podcasts, TikTok vids, and the like? Who reads books, outside of the James Patterson spastic diarrhea that is built of paragraphs suitable for chipmunks? In waiting rooms, I'm usually the only one holding a book. Guess what everyone else is staring at?
In any case, if some guy --or young woman -- is asked to take an assessment before a relationship can proceed, there's a protocol.

She: I would like you to take this little assessment. It will ask you to pronounce a list of words.
He: Oh, sure. But I'll need a favor from you.
She: Such as...?
He: Would you agree to take the Dees Assessment for me?
She: Well, what does that consist of?
He (pointing) Dees nuts!!

I agree people don't read like they used to, but I would STILL rather people read James Patterson, than stare at TikTok or FB. I would rather my kids read a comic book than NO BOOK.

Agree totally. Habit readers move on to better and better authors, in many cases. I read comics voraciously as a youngster, but moved on to series fiction (Hardy Boys), then the Landmark history series, and finally i used Classics Illustrated comic books as a springboard to the actual novels they tapped for those comics.
(Patterson I'll always steer clear of, simply from the text layout. Don't know how anyone can read page after page of those little rabbit turd paragraphs that seem to be just one or two sentences each.)

 

[Loren Pechtel]

It takes a lot of practice for an adult to learn to say sounds they didn't learn as a child.

Tell me about it! I spent a summer in my younger days trying to learn Diné Bizaad, the Navajo language. It didn't exactly go well. My dig partner was fluent, and tried his best to help, but he didn't know enough about articulatory phonetics to explain what I was doing wrong.

Hit the same problem--she doesn't know enough about how to teach it (Mandarin) that we are stuck on my saying it wrong, she tells me I'm saying it wrong and what I should be saying and I can't hear the difference. And when we are over there there have been many instances of my saying something, she echoes it to my ear identical to what I said, but they understand her but not me.

One interesting fact about babies is that when they are babbling, they can reproduce the sounds of just about any human language, and often do make sounds their parents wouldn't recognize or distinguish from others. But then there's a remarkably abrupt transition where their range of sounds drastically reduces, and they are babbling with mostly just the common sounds of their parents' language(s). For most kids, you can expect their first word a couple weeks later, maybe less. Phonemes, the fundamental sounds of speech, are the base of the whole complex pyramid of intelligible speech. You can understand without them, but not speak without them.

Vision, also. Young enough they can tell apart animals whose variations are effectively impossible for us to discern.