Another day in woke crazy land

[pood]

Too much nuance?

Too much stupidity.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Here is a partial transcript. One patron was Jewish, a museum curator and the other was south Asian.

Patron: "Are you blond?"

Galliano: "No, but I love Hitler. People like you would be dead today.
Fathers-, your forefathers, would be fucking gassed and fucking dead."

Patron: "Oh my god. *pause* Do you have a problem?"

Galliano: "With you? You're ugly."

Patron: "You don't want peace? You don't want peace in the world?"

Galliano: "Not with people who are ugly, people like you. "

Patron: some kind of question but there is overlap with his comment.

Galliano: "You're fucking ugly."

 

[pood]

Here is a partial transcript. One patron was Jewish, a museum curator and the other was south Asian.

Patron: "Are you blond?"

Galliano: "No, but I love Hitler. People like you would be dead today.
Fathers-, your forefathers, would be fucking gassed and fucking dead."

Patron: "Oh my god. *pause* Do you have a problem?"

Galliano: "With you? You're ugly."

Patron: "You don't want peace? You don't want peace in the world?"

Galliano: "Not with people who are ugly, people like you. "

Patron: some kind of question but there is overlap with his comment.

Galliano: "You're fucking ugly."

Wow, that’s a laugh riot! Glad Dr. Z, at least, can appreciate the humor!

But remember, this is the humor of “edgy queens,” so it’s all good.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Here is a partial transcript. One patron was Jewish, a museum curator and the other was south Asian.

Patron: "Are you blond?"

Galliano: "No, but I love Hitler. People like you would be dead today.
Fathers-, your forefathers, would be fucking gassed and fucking dead."

Patron: "Oh my god. *pause* Do you have a problem?"

Galliano: "With you? You're ugly."

Patron: "You don't want peace? You don't want peace in the world?"

Galliano: "Not with people who are ugly, people like you. "

Patron: some kind of question but there is overlap with his comment.

Galliano: "You're fucking ugly."

I'm not defending the behaviour. I'm questioning the conclusion that he's a Nazi, simply based on the video.

Here's a possible scenario. These guys could have been annoying him for a long time and he wants to be left alone. They just don't get it. Finally he snaps and just says the worst things he can imagine to them. I think that's a plausible explanation for how this situation came about. It's not cool. But we've all been in situations where we're pushed to the point where we say stuff we later regret. Most of us are just lucky to not have it recorded. Again... I'm not defending the behaviour. What I am saying is that I don't think 1) we can assume he meant all that litterally, and 2) I don't think the punishment fits the crime. It's too extreme to keep going on about this 15 years later. Especially since this guy has consistently publicly grovelled apologies since then.

Or to put it another way... if we're unable to forgive, why would anyone ever bother trying to better themselves?

 

[ZiprHead]

Here is a partial transcript. One patron was Jewish, a museum curator and the other was south Asian.

Patron: "Are you blond?"

Galliano: "No, but I love Hitler. People like you would be dead today.
Fathers-, your forefathers, would be fucking gassed and fucking dead."

Patron: "Oh my god. *pause* Do you have a problem?"

Galliano: "With you? You're ugly."

Patron: "You don't want peace? You don't want peace in the world?"

Galliano: "Not with people who are ugly, people like you. "

Patron: some kind of question but there is overlap with his comment.

Galliano: "You're fucking ugly."

I'm not defending the behaviour. I'm questioning the conclusion that he's a Nazi, simply based on the video.

Here's a possible scenario. These guys could have been annoying him for a long time and he wants to be left alone. They just don't get it. Finally he snaps and just says the worst things he can imagine to them. I think that's a plausible explanation for how this situation came about. It's not cool. But we've all been in situations where we're pushed to the point where we say stuff we later regret. Most of us are just lucky to not have it recorded. Again... I'm not defending the behaviour. What I am saying is that I don't think 1) we can assume he meant all that litterally, and 2) I don't think the punishment fits the crime. It's too extreme to keep going on about this 15 years later. Especially since this guy has consistently publicly grovelled apologies since then.

Or to put it another way... if we're unable to forgive, why would anyone ever bother trying to better themselves?

If your scenario is true, there are literally dozens of other statements he could have made to make them shut up or insult them. But he went full Nazi. Only Nazis go full Nazi.

Another irony is that he would have been in the gas chamber right along with the targets of his ire.

 

[Jarhyn]

Quote from the person who started this idiotic thread:

This forum has a serious antisemitism problem.

PROVE IT.

Or withdraw your defamatory slur, you big fan of an obvious anti-semite.

Well, I think there are a few antisemites on this forum, but I think there's some disagreement who those people are.

Personally I think that the worst, most existentially awful forms of antisemitic action are encouraging Jewish people to do to others what others have done to Jewish people, not merely harming but existentially damaging Jewish culture more than religion itself has already done.

 

[thebeave]

Here is a partial transcript. One patron was Jewish, a museum curator and the other was south Asian.

Patron: "Are you blond?"

Galliano: "No, but I love Hitler. People like you would be dead today.
Fathers-, your forefathers, would be fucking gassed and fucking dead."

Patron: "Oh my god. *pause* Do you have a problem?"

Galliano: "With you? You're ugly."

Patron: "You don't want peace? You don't want peace in the world?"

Galliano: "Not with people who are ugly, people like you. "

Patron: some kind of question but there is overlap with his comment.

Galliano: "You're fucking ugly."

I hate to say it, but I've regularly seen these types of pejorative insults on this board. Not so much regarding looks (since we generally don't know what people look like), but character.

 

[pood]

Here is a partial transcript. One patron was Jewish, a museum curator and the other was south Asian.

Patron: "Are you blond?"

Galliano: "No, but I love Hitler. People like you would be dead today.
Fathers-, your forefathers, would be fucking gassed and fucking dead."

Patron: "Oh my god. *pause* Do you have a problem?"

Galliano: "With you? You're ugly."

Patron: "You don't want peace? You don't want peace in the world?"

Galliano: "Not with people who are ugly, people like you. "

Patron: some kind of question but there is overlap with his comment.

Galliano: "You're fucking ugly."

I'm not defending the behaviour. I'm questioning the conclusion that he's a Nazi, simply based on the video.

Here's a possible scenario. These guys could have been annoying him for a long time and he wants to be left alone.

Evidence for this “scenario?” Zero.

They just don't get it.

Why, because they are Jews?

Finally he snaps and just says the worst things he can imagine to them. I think that's a plausible explanation for how this situation came about.

Here is a more plausible scenario: He’s a fucking Hitler-loving, anti-semitic Nazi.

 

[pood]

All the time, when I prefer to be left alone but people are bugging me, I leap up and snarl at them, “I love Hitler! You are ugly! Your relatives would have been gassed!”

I mean, who doesn’t do that?

 

[pood]

It’s incredible. This idiotic thread defending an obvious anti-semite posted by a guy who has wrongly and slanderously accused a whole bunch of us of being anti-semitic.

The galls is beyond wonderment.

 

[Elixir]

All the time, when I prefer to be left alone but people are bugging me, I leap up and snarl at them, “I love Hitler! You are ugly! Your relatives would have been gassed!”

I mean, who doesn’t do that?

You’re being a very mean dickhead. I bet Z doesn’t do that. Usually.

 

[TomC]

Here is a partial transcript. One patron was Jewish, a museum curator and the other was south Asian.

Patron: "Are you blond?"

Galliano: "No, but I love Hitler. People like you would be dead today.
Fathers-, your forefathers, would be fucking gassed and fucking dead."

Patron: "Oh my god. *pause* Do you have a problem?"

Galliano: "With you? You're ugly."

Patron: "You don't want peace? You don't want peace in the world?"

Galliano: "Not with people who are ugly, people like you. "

Patron: some kind of question but there is overlap with his comment.

Galliano: "You're fucking ugly."

I'm not defending the behaviour. I'm questioning the conclusion that he's a Nazi, simply based on the video.

Here's a possible scenario. These guys could have been annoying him for a long time and he wants to be left alone.

Evidence for this “scenario?” Zero.

They just don't get it.

Why, because they are Jews?

Finally he snaps and just says the worst things he can imagine to them. I think that's a plausible explanation for how this situation came about.

Here is a more plausible scenario: He’s a fucking Hitler-loving, anti-semitic Nazi.

Why do you hate gay guys?
Tom

 

[laughing dog]

I think its ok to be offensive

While your posting history reflects that, you don’t think it is ok to be offensive to you. You have no problem flinging accusations of antisemitism at those with whom you disagree.

I don't think you thought this post through before posting it.

My problem has always been with actual antisemitism. Its political implications. I'm not against it because its offensive. I have a problem with it because its evil. I don't want to live in a world where Jews need to live in constant fear of losing their lives.

Policing offensiveness is a faux activity. Its the theatre of caring instead of actually caring. It helps nobody, gets in the way of intellectual honesty and is purely a distraction.

This forum has a serious antisemitism problem. Those same antisemites are among those of the forum who are the most adept att avoiding to use offensive language. I think that proves my point.

To anyone familiar with the posting history, it proves my point, as does your offensive response.

 

[Elixir]

This forum has a serious antisemitism problem.

Hey, I resemble that!
I am, and have long been, deeply fearful of what Jews like Bibi are willing to do, having designated themselves as collectively “chosen”.
Pretty much the same as I am deeply fearful of radical Islamists, who have done the same exact thing while reading a slightly different book. And ‘Murkin “Christianists”. Who probably pose the most real threat to me personally.
A pox in all of their houses.
I don’t harbor such feelings about any of the Jews or Muslims I know personally, but I wish they would all go agnostic to dissociate themselves from The Ugly.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I don't think John Galliano is racist. I think he's funny. Racist statements can be funny in the right context.

IMO:
1) a racist can be funny,
2) racists can find statements funny, and
3) if a comment is racist in the right context then it is racist.

I don’t know anything about John Galliano nor am I going to watch some video. But if he makes his living by making racist comments, , he is most likely a bigot or maybe even a racist.

1) John Galliano was caught on camera (twice) saying outrageous racist comments, while incredibly drunk at fashion parties. for example he says that he "loves Hitler".

2) John Galliano is famously, a flaming queen. He couldn't possibly look or behave more stereotypically gay. Not only do everybody who knows him by reputation know he's gay, but anyone who meets him is likely to clock him as gay. Super duper gay. And then there's the way he dresses. Gay as fuck.

3) It's not believable that someone gay loves Hitler. So obviously there's more to the story. We might not think that story is funny. But the idea that Galliano is litterally a Nazi is ludicrious.

4) He is one of the world's most successful fashion designers in history. He was one of the most wealthy and well paid fashion designers, until he was caught on camera saying he loves Hitler. Then he got fired. Since then he's made no money. Persona non grata. This was 2011. So he's like someone who makes money from saying racist stuff.... but the opposite.

5) Considering his high profile and the world he's in, if he really was racist he would obviously keep his mouth shut about it.

6) There's a culture among queens to say super edgy, outrageous and offensive stuff at parties. It's a gay thing. You might not like it, or think it's off colour. But they've been doing this since forever. They're not going to stop. Galliano's behaviour is very much part of that tradition. He's in good company. And I personally think it's funny as fuck. It's cruel and crass. But I must admit that I love it. You only get a good story by doing something that's a bad idea. That's, very much, the creedo. Is it self destructive? Yes. Is it funny? Yes. You will never stop being entertained when you go to these parties. They're awesome. There's a whole gay sub-culture of it. But you need to have thick skin to survive them.

Saying one "loves Hitler" doesn't make one racist but incredibly loathsome.

I seem to recall another famous person who uttered many anti-semitic remarks (Mel Gibson). Seems he is anti-semitic. I am of the opinion that what people say when they are drunk tends to reflect their true feelings.

People who have their shit together aren't alcoholics. It's self medication for mental problems. I don't like labelling sick people loathsome. I'm aware there's valid arguments against this. Once someone has hit rock bottom and built themselves up, ie both Galliano and Gibson, I'd like to give them the benefit of the doubt, no matter how bad things they've done in the past. I like to give anyone the benefit of the doubt, if the horrible things they did was long ago.

Sure, Gibson probably is antisemitic. But he did give us the film Apocalypto. I think only Hollywood film about pre-European native American culture who has taken their culture seriously, warts and all. Sure, there's historical inaccuracies, and the Maya theology portrayed is so-so. But the film is a masterpiece of cultural sensitivity. No, I don't care what retarded indigenous activists whine about. These people will never be satisfied. There's nothing remotely close to that movie, and he did it in a time when nobody said it was possible. He took great personal risk, both regarding his reputation and financially. And it was a huge success. So I have a soft spot for Gibson, even though he's antisemtic. He's not all bad IMHO.

I think John Galliano probably is probably a loathsome person. I don't know for sure. But he doesn't come across as especially nice. The fashion industry doesn't seem to attract pleasant people. But he's good at designing clothes. I like his art. And it would be a shame if he couldn't do that just because he's a nasty drunk. And I have a soft spot for gays. Especially queens.

I want to live in a tolerant world. Tolerance goes in every way and in every direction. Nobody is perfect. I'm not. And I don't want to live in a world that condemns me just for me being myself. I will fuck up at some point and when I do I'd also like to be forgiven.

Jebus, you are all over the road.

Too much nuance? Doesn't fit your simplistic Disneyland version of reality? I judge people how they are on balance.

No, you are all over the road. Once again, seemingly taking all possible sides and being as inconsistent as possible.

 

[DrZoidberg]

I don't think John Galliano is racist. I think he's funny. Racist statements can be funny in the right context.

IMO:
1) a racist can be funny,
2) racists can find statements funny, and
3) if a comment is racist in the right context then it is racist.

I don’t know anything about John Galliano nor am I going to watch some video. But if he makes his living by making racist comments, , he is most likely a bigot or maybe even a racist.

1) John Galliano was caught on camera (twice) saying outrageous racist comments, while incredibly drunk at fashion parties. for example he says that he "loves Hitler".

2) John Galliano is famously, a flaming queen. He couldn't possibly look or behave more stereotypically gay. Not only do everybody who knows him by reputation know he's gay, but anyone who meets him is likely to clock him as gay. Super duper gay. And then there's the way he dresses. Gay as fuck.

3) It's not believable that someone gay loves Hitler. So obviously there's more to the story. We might not think that story is funny. But the idea that Galliano is litterally a Nazi is ludicrious.

4) He is one of the world's most successful fashion designers in history. He was one of the most wealthy and well paid fashion designers, until he was caught on camera saying he loves Hitler. Then he got fired. Since then he's made no money. Persona non grata. This was 2011. So he's like someone who makes money from saying racist stuff.... but the opposite.

5) Considering his high profile and the world he's in, if he really was racist he would obviously keep his mouth shut about it.

6) There's a culture among queens to say super edgy, outrageous and offensive stuff at parties. It's a gay thing. You might not like it, or think it's off colour. But they've been doing this since forever. They're not going to stop. Galliano's behaviour is very much part of that tradition. He's in good company. And I personally think it's funny as fuck. It's cruel and crass. But I must admit that I love it. You only get a good story by doing something that's a bad idea. That's, very much, the creedo. Is it self destructive? Yes. Is it funny? Yes. You will never stop being entertained when you go to these parties. They're awesome. There's a whole gay sub-culture of it. But you need to have thick skin to survive them.

Saying one "loves Hitler" doesn't make one racist but incredibly loathsome.

I seem to recall another famous person who uttered many anti-semitic remarks (Mel Gibson). Seems he is anti-semitic. I am of the opinion that what people say when they are drunk tends to reflect their true feelings.

People who have their shit together aren't alcoholics. It's self medication for mental problems. I don't like labelling sick people loathsome. I'm aware there's valid arguments against this. Once someone has hit rock bottom and built themselves up, ie both Galliano and Gibson, I'd like to give them the benefit of the doubt, no matter how bad things they've done in the past. I like to give anyone the benefit of the doubt, if the horrible things they did was long ago.

Sure, Gibson probably is antisemitic. But he did give us the film Apocalypto. I think only Hollywood film about pre-European native American culture who has taken their culture seriously, warts and all. Sure, there's historical inaccuracies, and the Maya theology portrayed is so-so. But the film is a masterpiece of cultural sensitivity. No, I don't care what retarded indigenous activists whine about. These people will never be satisfied. There's nothing remotely close to that movie, and he did it in a time when nobody said it was possible. He took great personal risk, both regarding his reputation and financially. And it was a huge success. So I have a soft spot for Gibson, even though he's antisemtic. He's not all bad IMHO.

I think John Galliano probably is probably a loathsome person. I don't know for sure. But he doesn't come across as especially nice. The fashion industry doesn't seem to attract pleasant people. But he's good at designing clothes. I like his art. And it would be a shame if he couldn't do that just because he's a nasty drunk. And I have a soft spot for gays. Especially queens.

I want to live in a tolerant world. Tolerance goes in every way and in every direction. Nobody is perfect. I'm not. And I don't want to live in a world that condemns me just for me being myself. I will fuck up at some point and when I do I'd also like to be forgiven.

Jebus, you are all over the road.

Too much nuance? Doesn't fit your simplistic Disneyland version of reality? I judge people how they are on balance.

No, you are all over the road. Once again, seemingly taking all possible sides and being as inconsistent as possible.

Holding people up to impossible standards and gleefully condemning them isn't a virtue. Seeing the humanity in other people is. Understanding that all people feel vulnerable. All people have complex webs of dysfunctional coping strategies to make it through the day. Even you. You are not one of the good guys here. Sorry.